C41 with Rapid Fixer

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Thor Lancelot Simon, Jul 6, 2005.

  1. Developing some not terribly important film to use up the last of a
    1-gallon Flexicolor kit last night I managed to switch the water and
    fixer bottles, resulting in a develop-bleach-6:30 water rinse-1 minute
    fixer wash-water wash process. Oops.

    Of course, once I realized why I had a tank of dense milky green film
    in front of me I didn't have any C41 fixer left.

    I refixed in Heico NH-5 at the "Film" dilution for 4 minutes. Some of
    the film still looks a little milky, though not like it was before.

    Some questions:

    1) Will an acid fixer meant for black and white use bleach out or otherwise
    transform color dyes? I seem to recall something about this from the
    murky past when I actually remembered more about how C41 works.

    2) Just how strong is C41 fixer, anyway? I would expect a liter of
    film-strength NH-5, newly mixed, to fix five rolls of just about
    anything -- but I am not sure, after 4 minutes, that the last roll
    of C41 film I put through it was even entirely clear.

    The film should be dry in a few hours and I will scan it and see how
    it looks.
     
    Thor Lancelot Simon, Jul 6, 2005
    #1
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  2. Thor Lancelot Simon

    Nick Zentena Guest


    Depends on the product I'd think. Glancing at the Flexicolor documents and
    they have a replenishment rate of 66ml per roll. The Fuji stuff I use has
    even lower replenishment.

    Nick
     
    Nick Zentena, Jul 6, 2005
    #2
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  3. Thor Lancelot Simon

    nailer Guest

    On 6 Jul 2005 06:37:58 -0400, (Thor Lancelot Simon)
    wrote:

    *Developing some not terribly important film to use up the last of a
    *1-gallon Flexicolor kit last night I managed to switch the water and
    *fixer bottles, resulting in a develop-bleach-6:30 water rinse-1 minute
    *fixer wash-water wash process. Oops.
    *
    *Of course, once I realized why I had a tank of dense milky green film
    *in front of me I didn't have any C41 fixer left.
    *
    *I refixed in Heico NH-5 at the "Film" dilution for 4 minutes. Some of
    *the film still looks a little milky, though not like it was before.

    refix until you get clear (when dry)film
    *
    *Some questions:
    *
    *1) Will an acid fixer meant for black and white use bleach out or otherwise
    * transform color dyes? I seem to recall something about this from the
    * murky past when I actually remembered more about how C41 works.
    *
    pH of a fixer is important, too low will lower LD-Dmin reading, HD-LD
    reading particularly cyan dye, it leads to loss of cyan. You can try
    to reverse it by re-bleaching the film. In low pH the cyan dye turns
    into colorless leuco form.
    *2) Just how strong is C41 fixer, anyway? I would expect a liter of
    * film-strength NH-5, newly mixed, to fix five rolls of just about
    * anything -- but I am not sure, after 4 minutes, that the last roll
    * of C41 film I put through it was even entirely clear.
    C41 fixer is 135 g/L, plus some sulfate to maintain pH around
    7.4(Agfa), or more than 6.5 (some other companies)
    My preference goes to Agfa recommendation. BW fixers have sufficient
    strength, but pH is well too low.
    *
    *The film should be dry in a few hours and I will scan it and see how
    *it looks.
     
    nailer, Jul 7, 2005
    #3
  4. Thor Lancelot Simon

    Bernie Guest

    C-41 fixer is a non-hardening higher pH formulation than a standard B&W
    rapid fixer. Otherwise, they are very similar; ammonium hypo/sulfite
    formulations.

    The low pH could cause some leuco cyan dye (some of the cyan image dye turns
    to an invisible state. This can be corrected by re-bleaching the film.

    If it is still hazy, it is possible the hardener did not allow the film to
    fix properly. Try re-bleaching and refixing the film in some non-hardening
    Rapid Fix (Part A only) buffered up to a pH of about 6.0 and the negs should
    be fine.
     
    Bernie, Jul 8, 2005
    #4
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