Cameras

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Scotty, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Scotty

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 2012-01-06 07:39:49 -0800, tony cooper <> said:
    :
    :
    : >
    : > The internet is plagued with retailers like this. While not the case
    : > here, the scam is particularly used by New York outfits.
    :
    : ...and then two of the most reputable vendors B&H and Adorama have NYC
    : as a home, and are both thoroughly trustworthy.
    :
    : I believe the notorious "shell game" vendors are to be found in
    : Brooklyn and a little further East in New Jersey.

    How long have you been stranded out there on the Left Coast, Duck? If you take
    a good look at a NYC area map, you may possibly want to revise that last
    sentence. ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 7, 2012
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. Scotty

    Savageduck Guest

    Aaagh! I must have been standing on my head!
     
    Savageduck, Jan 7, 2012
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. Scotty

    tony cooper Guest

    I wrote "New York outfits". That includes firms in any borough or
    anywhere in the state. I did omit New Jersey, but I also omitted
    firms in any other state, and I'm sure there are some around in other
    states.

    There might even be one in some part of New Jersey that is east of
    some part of New York state.

    For some insight into where the scam dealers are located, and if they
    really have a camera store, it's always interesting to read Don Wiss's
    page: http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
     
    tony cooper, Jan 7, 2012
    #23
  4. Scotty

    Savageduck Guest

    I thought that was what you meant. However there are many from foreign
    shores who think of "New York" as Manhattan.
    True the NY-NJ State lines can be very confusing just across the
    Hudson. I have a friend who lives in Spring Valley, NY where the
    "Garden State Parkway" (I-287) & The "NY State Thruway" (I-87) switch
    names & numbers.
    It seems that driving to anywhere within a few blocks of his home, you
    cross between NY and NJ several times from impossible directions. While
    I know his mailing address is in Spring Valley, NY it always feels as
    if his house is a NY island in NJ.
    Don's chronicle of the phantom store fronts. A great exposé.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 7, 2012
    #24
  5. Scotty

    Savageduck Guest

    I should have phrased that as, "there are many from foreign shores who
    think of Manhattan as New York."
     
    Savageduck, Jan 7, 2012
    #25
  6. Scotty

    Chemiker Guest

    That's the simple truth. Since you're talking DSLR, the lenses are
    going to be a LOT more complex than, for example, a Nikon prime lens
    from the 70's. Zoom mechanisms can go sour, lenses can develop fungus
    problems, dust can intrude, microchips can go bad, etc. etc.
    Experience is your friend here.

    I would avoid (for the time being) Olympus, as the company is in
    turmoil right now. Also, buying a body&lens from a reputable dealer
    will ensure that the parts are designed to work together. In the Nikon
    "D" series of bodies, not all lenses sold with a "D" body (FE: D-60)
    will work properly with ALL "D" bodies. Buying on eBay, you might get
    a mismatched set.

    Good luck with your project. You can get a lot of satisfaction out of
    a gently used Canon or Nikon DSLR (not to disparage other brands),
    even with an ordinary Kit Lens.

    Alex
     
    Chemiker, Jan 8, 2012
    #26
  7. Scotty

    Chemiker Guest

    It better be. My son-in-law just bought that package in Germany! :)

    Alex
     
    Chemiker, Jan 8, 2012
    #27
  8. Scotty

    Chemiker Guest

    Also, make sure the MFR's warranty is included. On the new Nikonn
    D7000, the market has many "bargains" that are grey-market imports w/o
    factory warranty. They say the warranty is included (usually at extra
    cost), but those too often are 3rd party warranties of dubious value.
    Some dealers do this. Some also sell refurbed as near original price,
    with a lesser warranty included.

    Alex
     
    Chemiker, Jan 8, 2012
    #28
  9. Scotty

    Pete A Guest

    Sorry that was so terse. I'd drafted five paragraphs of explanation,
    but even I couldn't understand most of it so I just gave the truthful
    answer. Others have posted the essence of what I attempted to write.

    I will add to their comments by saying I'm not impressed by so-called
    "expert" lens test which review only one sample of the product. All
    mass-produced lenses have misaligned elements: only Zeiss MTF charts
    are derived from actual production samples; all others are derived from
    computer aided design software and do not include the degradation
    effects of tolerances given to the lens manufacturer. So, even most
    "experts" couldn't tell if a lens is working inside or outside of its
    specification when it is new, let alone a used sample.
     
    Pete A, Jan 8, 2012
    #29
  10. Scotty

    Pete A Guest

    That reminds me, there is no such thing as even a semi-professional
    digital camera, let alone the full works. Half-decent amateur film
    cameras offered alternative power sources and could limp along on dead
    batteries by shooting at the mechanical shutter speed; still being able
    to trigger the flash when required.

    Progress has meant buying at least two cameras, memory cards, battery
    packs, chargers, computers... It's all fun for those who have the time
    and money, but the move is all about corporate progress rather than
    technology being used for the benefit of mankind (that era has long
    gone).

    I wonder what Ansel Adams would have to say about the contrast between
    the solitary nature of his photography and the faux social on-line
    networking of the 21st century. I wonder because I'm open-minded and am
    currently unable to form a reasonable opinion.
     
    Pete A, Jan 11, 2012
    #30
  11. The single mechanical shutter speed was completely useless in a wide
    range of photographic situations -- especially sports, for example, but
    also anything really low-light (where you needed much slower speeds to
    get an image at all). And not everything had even that.
    There's much less need for multiple bodies today than there was in the
    1970s. We use more zooms (so we don't need multiple bodies for quick
    focal-length switches), and we don't need separate bodies for color and
    B&W (and maybe for fast and slow film). I carried two film bodies to
    Australia in about 1983, for example, even as an amateur.

    If you look at photos of photojournalists or wedding shooters in action
    in the past, multiple cameras were very very common.
    "Faux social", eh? Hey, if you think it's not real, *go away*. It's as
    valid a form of socil interaction as any other, with advantages and
    disadvantages. I have good friends I made online decades ago who I now
    see in person occasionally; it's all social.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 11, 2012
    #31
  12. Scotty

    PeterN Guest

    On 1/11/2012 3:22 PM, Pete A wrote:

    There is no real difference. Today, there are solitary artists, just as
    there was in his day. AA, as great as he was, would have made a lousy
    wedding photographer. Many fine event photographers, would make lousy
    landscape photographers.h the exception of the appearance of a few sick
    and cowardly trolls, the same type of interaction appears on the
    Internet, as as gone on for years.
    The Internet is simply another means of communication.
    I would not call this interaction "faux social." It is indeed quite
    social, except it provides an option to walk in and out of the room,
    without really insulting anybody.
     
    PeterN, Jan 12, 2012
    #32
  13. Scotty

    Pete A Guest

    There are many more situations in which the mechanical shutter speed
    would produce useable images than it wouldn't, which is why the feature
    was added.

    A suitable film (ISO range covered what, 25 to 1600?), a mechanical
    shutter speed of 1/250 s, and a reasonably fast lens, is a hell of a
    lot more versatile than a dead camera. For shallow depth of field in
    bright light, just use the neutral density filter that should already
    be in the kit bag. For night photography, Bulb mode operated the
    shutter mechanically on many cameras so no problem with that either.

    For the combination of low-light and a subject unsuited to flash: hopeless.
    If the primary body fails during an important shoot, a backup body is
    still required. With film, the body had little effect on image quality
    so all that was needed was a backup body that accepted the same lenses.

    If one relies on a computer to post process then a backup computer is required.
    The antisocial aspect obviously isn't faux!
    My "faux" mainly referred to "social on-line networking" not just the
    word "social":

    <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16415584>

    However, those who make claims such as "I have 500 friends on Twitter"
    are delusional. I've even heard the claim made on-air by a radio
    presenter.
     
    Pete A, Jan 12, 2012
    #33
  14. Scotty

    Pete A Guest

    Is it, perhaps, that the purpose(s) of socializing has changed?
    Sometimes I read that people in modern times feel more anonymous than
    ever before, which creates a strong desire to reach out to others.

    The aspect that really puzzles me is using written communication as
    means of socializing with people we have never met and probably never
    will. In face-to-face communication, non-verbal aspects account for
    about two-thirds of the communication; the words themselves are
    therefore only about one third of the message (some estimates put a
    much lower value on the words). Furthermore, it's been shown that
    people are least likely to be honest in written communications because
    the strong non-verbal clues to any form of deception are absent.

    As I said in my reply to DDB, when I wrote my above post, the "faux"
    was mainly referring to "social on-line networking" rather than just
    the word "social". The purpose of "networking" is primarily to expand
    one's opportunities in life; it is obviously done for selfish reasons,
    but many now accept it as an essential skill rather than something
    underhanded.

    Networking requires trust and honesty for it to work. E.g. only a fool
    would enter into a business partnership with someone they had networked
    with on-line and never met in person. That's why I feel on-line
    networking is faux - an artificial version of the real thing.
     
    Pete A, Jan 12, 2012
    #34
  15. I dunno, I've never lived any time except in the modern era.

    I can't help noticing the huge volumes of letters written by people in
    earlier eras, though, including years-long correspondences between
    people who never met, or who only met later.
    I don't accept those numbers on verbal to non-verbal. The vast majority
    of the real content in any serious conversation I have is in the words;
    there is minor additional information that might, perhaps, amount to 10%
    in the side-bands of expression and such.

    I've also met many of my online friends, and use online venues to keep
    in touch with people I met originally in person. Some of them have
    ended up living close to me, so I see them frequently.

    There aren't any reliable non-verbal clues to deception, though
    admittedly some people (especially children) are bad at lying.
    I vehemently deny that definition of "networking". Or perhaps what I
    deny is that that's what we're doing here; there *are* people who do
    that kind of networking. Linkedin.com is for them -- and is widely
    reviled.

    Generally, I'm in these newsgroups and many other online venues for
    social purposes, and to some extent to learn from others. I want to
    talk casually with people with whom I share common interests like
    photography, or science fiction, etc.
    You can often find out more about what a person is like from online than
    in person. That's why most employers these days check up on your online
    history. Becaues that's the point -- you leave a permanent history,
    unlike your meatspace interacitons.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 12, 2012
    #35
  16. Scotty

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 2012-01-11 22:17:00 +0000, David Dyer-Bennet said:
    :
    : >
    : >> That reminds me, there is no such thing as even a semi-professional
    : >> digital camera, let alone the full works. Half-decent amateur film
    : >> cameras offered alternative power sources and could limp along on dead
    : >> batteries by shooting at the mechanical shutter speed; still being
    : >> able to trigger the flash when required.
    : >
    : > The single mechanical shutter speed was completely useless in a wide
    : > range of photographic situations -- especially sports, for example, but
    : > also anything really low-light (where you needed much slower speeds to
    : > get an image at all). And not everything had even that.
    :
    : There are many more situations in which the mechanical shutter speed
    : would produce useable images than it wouldn't, which is why the feature
    : was added.
    :
    : A suitable film (ISO range covered what, 25 to 1600?), a mechanical
    : shutter speed of 1/250 s, and a reasonably fast lens, is a hell of a
    : lot more versatile than a dead camera. For shallow depth of field in
    : bright light, just use the neutral density filter that should already
    : be in the kit bag. For night photography, Bulb mode operated the
    : shutter mechanically on many cameras so no problem with that either.

    You guys have completely lost me. I owned several film cameras, from a Brownie
    Reflex to a Nikon F-2, and on none of them did firing the shutter depend on a
    battery. Weren't all of the shutter speeds on those cameras "mechanical"?

    : For the combination of low-light and a subject unsuited to flash: hopeless.
    :
    : >> Progress has meant buying at least two cameras, memory cards, battery
    : >> packs, chargers, computers... It's all fun for those who have the time
    : >> and money, but the move is all about corporate progress rather than
    : >> technology being used for the benefit of mankind (that era has long
    : >> gone).
    : >
    : > There's much less need for multiple bodies today than there was in the
    : > 1970s. We use more zooms (so we don't need multiple bodies for quick
    : > focal-length switches), and we don't need separate bodies for color and
    : > B&W (and maybe for fast and slow film). I carried two film bodies to
    : > Australia in about 1983, for example, even as an amateur.

    My photographic epiphany was meeting Jun Miki and seeing his Nikons (in 1954).
    The two cameras were identical, down to the lens (50mm f/1.4); but one
    contained color film, the other B&W.

    : > If you look at photos of photojournalists or wedding shooters in action
    : > in the past, multiple cameras were very very common.

    I almost always use two cameras when covering an indoor event. Yes, there are
    long-reach zooms that would, in principle, make that unnecessary; but all are
    pretty slow at the long end. Indoors, I use only f/2.8 CA zooms, and I can't
    get the range I need with only one.

    : If the primary body fails during an important shoot, a backup body is
    : still required. With film, the body had little effect on image quality
    : so all that was needed was a backup body that accepted the same lenses.
    :
    : If one relies on a computer to post process then a backup computer is
    : required.

    Fine, I have six in my office. But I don't have to carry them with me.

    : >> I wonder what Ansel Adams would have to say about the contrast between
    : >> the solitary nature of his photography and the faux social on-line
    : >> networking of the 21st century. I wonder because I'm open-minded and
    : >> am currently unable to form a reasonable opinion.

    Adams looked forward to technological innovations he knew he wouldn't live to
    see. He used the equipment he used because he considered it best for what he
    wanted to achieve. If something better came along, he was ready for it.

    : > "Faux social", eh? Hey, if you think it's not real, *go away*.
    :
    : The antisocial aspect obviously isn't faux!
    :
    : > It's as valid a form of social interaction as any other, with advantages
    : > and disadvantages. I have good friends I made online decades ago who I
    : > now see in person occasionally; it's all social.
    :
    : My "faux" mainly referred to "social on-line networking" not just the
    : word "social":
    :
    : <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16415584>
    :
    : However, those who make claims such as "I have 500 friends on Twitter"
    : are delusional. I've even heard the claim made on-air by a radio
    : presenter.

    It surprises you that a radio presenter is delusional?? ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 13, 2012
    #36
  17. Yes. But not on the FE, F3, or later cameras. Or the Olympus OM-2 or
    OM-4. Electronically governed shutters were more accurate and required
    less maintenance -- but only worked with good batteries.
    I never went to identical lenses to put on the two bodies.
    I found a DX body with a 70-200 and an FX with the 24-70 a good combo;
    but I sold off the old DX body while it still had some value, I can't
    really justify keeping two digital bodies. But I got some benefit
    during the overlap.
    He did indeed. I'd have loved to see him wading into the digital
    world.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jan 13, 2012
    #37
  18. Scotty

    Pete A Guest

    Sorry to interject, but you are both commenting on my post(s). If you
    don't have more than one digital body then my comments regarding "...
    there is no such thing as even a semi-professional digital camera, let
    alone the full works" don't apply to you. That isn't an insult: I don't
    have a digital backup for my D700 because I'm not a pro photographer.

    When I undertake a photo shoot for my clients (voluntary work and
    favours for friends) I make it clear that no results means "Tough shit
    - you should've paid for a pro." However, I do take along other
    cameras, both film and digital, and have built up some fun notoriety
    due to enlisting the help of an enthusiastic assistant or two on the
    spur of the moment :)
    Really?

    <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16483509>

    I'm sure we'd all love to see his endless YouTube videos shot on his
    camera phone and his tweets on Twitter, not! I wonder what he would
    write about the recent attack on a person where the bystanders just
    recorded the event on their camera phones instead using the devices to
    summon the emergency services.

    My hope is that, one day during my lifetime, the digital rendition of
    images will advance enough to encompass not only AA's splendid
    additions to the art of photography, display device manufacturers will
    decide to produce "more image" rather than less. Oh, why am I thinking
    of the almost defunct slide projector?
     
    Pete A, Jan 13, 2012
    #38
  19. doesn't say anything about AA. It's very much generalizing ---
    like saying "men court women, have sex, marry, have babies,
    in that order" (I doubt that really applies to non-heterosexual
    people, monks and nuns and Roman-Catholic priests, DINKs, people
    who cannot get babies, people who get babies before they marry,
    people who won't have sex before marriage, women who actively
    court men, etc. etc. etc.)

    And you're sure AA would do endless YouTube videos (and that
    you'd be forced to watch!) because ... ? And you're sure they'd
    be uninteresting drivel like his other non-photo-print products
    like the zone system and AAs books, because?

    He'd twitter "In my time we'd never be able to get a collodium
    plate ready in time for shots of a perp, and we'd never be able
    to call anyone with it. Yay technology!" And then he'd link to
    a gallery with shots of said perps.

    BTW, does it really help when a dozen people call the police
    at the same time and noone helps to identify the criminals?

    Please patent "digital slides" now. Maybe it'll be out when
    we'll have that silicon film for all the old analog cameras ...

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jan 17, 2012
    #39
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.