Canon 7D?

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Robert Coe, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Is anybody buying the Canon 7D? I don't seem to hear much about it. All the
    high-rollers of the Canon persuasion in the photography newsgroups appear to
    be snapping up the 5D2. But on the face of it, the 7D would seem to be a much
    better buy, especially for those who already own lenses for a 1/1.6 camera.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jun 30, 2010
    #1
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  2. It's a fine camera.
    Feel free to ignore the dofi who may refer to the Wiggett blog piece of
    last Fall.
    Oy!
     
    John McWilliams, Jun 30, 2010
    #2
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  3. Robert Coe

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Go away, asshole troll.
     
    Ray Fischer, Jun 30, 2010
    #3
  4. Robert Coe

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Quite a few people.
    The 5D2 is better for landscapes since it does wide angle better and
    has higher resolution. The 7D does action better since it takes
    pictures twice as fast and has better autofocus.

    They're both very nice cameras. Which you choose depends upon your needs.
     
    Ray Fischer, Jun 30, 2010
    #4
  5. Robert Coe

    Me Guest

    I think Wigget also interpolated images to 18mp from 12mp (apart from
    resolution, also disadvantaging the 12mp images in the comparison by
    resampling compared to original 1:1 pixels), yet they still looked
    better. So perhaps CoC vs resolution argument isn't valid.
    There's no argument in posts to the blog which identifies an error (not
    to say Wigget didn't make one), but an awful lot of abuse.
    If there's an error, then my guess is it's possibly by just not
    assessing enough samples. The difference between 12 and 18mp (in the
    same format) is truly minuscule, bench tests I've seen showing a
    resolution advantage of perhaps 5%, about 1/4 *at most* over theoretical
    (ie perfect optics) advantage of just over 20% (linear), even that
    hardly visible in a print of any size (unless designed to show the
    difference - ie test chart). Given shot to shot variation in real(TM)
    photos, as opposed to bench test, a Wigget result is hardly unusual or
    unexpected.
     
    Me, Jun 30, 2010
    #5
  6. Robert Coe

    eatmorepies Guest

    I use a 5D2 and have looked at the 7D but I am put off by an 18Mp sensor in
    1.6 crop size.

    Having got used to a default ISO of 400 and negligible noise at ISO1600 I'm
    loathe to buy a camera that may well have similar noise characteristics to
    my 50D. I would like a better autofocus system such as that offered by the
    7D - I am aware that the focus system of both my 50D and 5D2 are less
    suitable for fast and furious sport photography than that of the 7D.
    However, I live in Wales and often need to use high ISO to get pictures
    under the grey skies or in the forests.

    So I'm currently deciding whether to splash out £3700 on a 1D mkIV rather
    than £1250 on a 7D that offers maginal advantage over the 50D.

    What I'd like, is to be able to borrow a 7D for a few days to audition it -
    whilst shops will let you take a few sample pictures in the store, day long
    test drives aren't possible.

    I have no idea if the diffraction limit of the 7D would matter to me as I
    rarely use anything about f4.5 for sport pictures.

    If anyone knows of a site with some real world high ISO shots from a 7D
    please post a link.

    John
     
    eatmorepies, Jun 30, 2010
    #6
  7. I disagree! If you use your camera only to pixel-peep, then
    just pixdel-peeping will do as a measure and nothing else will.

    Should you be of the tiny minority that looks at images on some
    medium or screen, probably at less than 1:1 and even using no
    loupe sometimes, such a test is not for you.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jun 30, 2010
    #7
  8. I probably wouldn't buy one. It's a wonderful camera, and I'd certainly
    like to have one. But considering the fact that I'm still satisfied with
    my 10D (which cost more back then than the 7D does now BTW), I don't see
    why I would spend so much money on a new body when my 10D breaks down.
    Even a second-hand 20D would be an improvement over what I've got now. :)
     
    Robert Spanjaard, Jun 30, 2010
    #8
  9. Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jun 30, 2010
    #9
  10. Robert Coe

    eatmorepies Guest

    Thanks Wolfgang, but that would cost 7.2% of the price of a new camera for a
    weekends use - about 12 times more than the wear I would put on it if I
    took 1000 images in the 2 days. When I buy a new car I get to drive it for
    several hours to see if it suits. The dealer eventually sells the car for
    perhaps 80% of the new price - hopefully having sold many cars over the
    months he has offered a demonstrator. By analogy the camera dealer only
    needs to rent it out for 3 weekends to get back the cost of having a
    demonstrator camera.

    When I ride a demonstrator motorbike I sign to say I will pay the first £
    (large amount of any accident) - then I can go off and see if the bike suits
    me. What I don't seem to be able to do is try a reasonably expensive camera
    under similar conditions. i.e. walk into shop, supply ID, hand over credit
    card so they can take an imprint in case I don't bring the camera back, sign
    a form saying I will pay up if I damage it, agree to use no more than 400
    shots - or pay for extra shots.

    I'm not keen on paying a shop £90 to trial a product.

    I think - many of us would happily pay an extra few percent on the purchase
    price from a local/high street dealer who operated a demonstrator scheme.

    John
     
    eatmorepies, Jun 30, 2010
    #10
  11. Robert Coe

    Me Guest

    I wouldn't worry about that.
    Here's photozone test of the 105 on D200, peaking resolution (on 10mp
    APS-c) at f5.6, then (presumably) showing diffraction losses above that.
    This lens also has very low CA, low distortion, and built like a tank.
    Af/MF clutch system sucks for Nikon users, but that doesn't matter if
    it's used for macro - that's all I use mine for.
    http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikk...g-nikon-mount-lab-test-report--review?start=1
    I use one on a D300 (12mpx) and I think it is as sharp as any lens I've
    used, bar none, peaking between f4 and f5.6. The old photodo site ranked
    the lens higher (IIRC 4.3/5 vs 4.1/5) than the 105 D nikkor macro - some
    achievement at <1/2 price. Initial loss of micro contrast (once maximum
    airy disk diameter approaches 2x sensel diameter) through diffraction is
    mainly recoverable using judicious small radius USM or "high pass"
    sharpening. Over 2x sensel diameter, and it starts to fall apart. It's
    a shame photozone don't show all f stop increments in their test - my
    guess at f22 it's already 1/2 resolution - a "3 mpx" result from a 10mpx
    camera. Sometimes that's okay too with macro subject.
    If you like, I'll post some test shots at various apertures. My
    subjective opinion, for maximum size (300dpi) prints with minimal
    diffraction losses after pp, around f11 is still quite okay on 12mp dx,
    above f16 and there are some problems. So perhaps 1/2 stop less with
    the 7d.
     
    Me, Jul 1, 2010
    #11
  12. Robert Coe

    Me Guest

    Yes - they seem very flat and underexposed on my screen - not some
    preference for a low-tone look.
    There's one shot (two rhinos in portrait orientation) that looks better,
    but exif identifies camera as a Rebel XS, not the 7d.
    Curiously the owner/photographer is **** "Studios". Anybody calling
    themselves a "studio" should possess at least one well calibrated monitor.

    OTOH, the screen used by joe public is bad, worse now almost nobody uses
    CRTs for desktop any more, and many use the largest TN panel LCD at the
    best price they can get, or laptops. The saviour here might be tablet
    touch-panel PCs. Because they're used in different orientations, Apple
    put an IPS panel in the iPad. With backlights (inc LED) being a battery
    hog, then there's incentive from the maker to not make them over-bright.
    I don't know if there's a way to calibrate an iPad, but out of the
    box, they seem pretty good. Even if you don't want an iPad type device,
    perhaps there's hope that because smaller IPS panels are being made,
    these will find their way into laptops - sans touch-screen layer.
     
    Me, Jul 2, 2010
    #12
  13. Robert Coe

    Ray Fischer Guest

    It's certainly something to wonder about.
    The 7D is very clean at 1600. I've shot at 6400 for events and gotten
    very usable results (which is easier if you're going to reduce from
    18MP down to 6MP).
    Rent one.
     
    Ray Fischer, Jul 4, 2010
    #13
  14. Robert Coe

    Ray Fischer Guest

    I can think of several words to descibe your content-free insults, but
    as you've doubtless heard them from people many times before I won't
    bother repeating them here.
     
    Ray Fischer, Jul 4, 2010
    #14
  15. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest


    Don't tae that as an insult. Take it as a failure of the poster. He seems to
    lack the ability to express himself without resorting to derogatory
    explicative's. I too have been his target. It occurs in cases where he has
    nothing to say in support of his point.
     
    Peter, Jul 5, 2010
    #15
  16. Robert Coe

    Ray Fischer Guest

    I didn't say you'd heard them here, dumbass.
     
    Ray Fischer, Jul 5, 2010
    #16
  17. Robert Coe

    LOL! Guest

    What's even funnier is when psychotic fools like you start to think that
    everyone is all the same person.

    LOL!
     
    LOL!, Jul 5, 2010
    #17
  18. Robert Coe

    Pete Guest

    Like me thinking all my pencils are the same instead of spending the
    time and energy learning their differences and giving each of them a
    name, only to realize that they insisted on changing their identities
    whenever they wanted to.

    Indeed, LOL!
     
    Pete, Jul 5, 2010
    #18
  19. Robert Coe

    LOL! Guest

    You NAME your pencils?

    LOL!!!!!!!

    Your problems go far deeper than you can even imagine.

    LOL!
     
    LOL!, Jul 5, 2010
    #19
  20. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 06:47:56 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    : wrote:
    :
    : >>
    : >> : >>
    : >> > On 7/4/2010 1:56 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:
    : >> >>> No camera would help those shots. Only Photoshop or something like it
    : >> >>> can
    : >> >>> fix the horribly wrong gamma. They are probably not seriously
    : >> >>> underexposed,
    : >> >>> just displayed badly for the screen.
    : >>
    : >> >>> There are two possible descriptions of the perpetrator: "incompetent"
    : >> >>> or "pig-headed".
    : >>
    : >> >> I can think of several words to descibe your content-free insults, but
    : >> >> as you've doubtless heard them from people many times before I won't
    : >> >> bother repeating them here.
    : >>
    : >> > Actually, no, I'm a very very uncommon poster here ... you are the first
    : >> > ...
    : >> > except the P&S troll ... to insult me.
    : >>
    : >> Don't tae that as an insult. Take it as a failure of the poster. He seems
    : >> to lack the ability to express himself without resorting to derogatory
    : >> explicative's.  I too have been his target. It occurs in cases where he
    : >> has nothing to say in support of his point.
    : >
    : >Have you seen when he has two of his sock puppets argue with each
    : >other? It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
    :
    : What's even funnier is when psychotic fools like you start to think that
    : everyone is all the same person.

    I, for one, would readily concede that you may be several different people. If
    I were a headshrinker or a researcher on disorders of the brain, that might
    even interest me. But I'm not.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 6, 2010
    #20
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