Canon or Nikon (got $2,000+ to spend)

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Debbie, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. Debbie

    Debbie Guest

    I need to upgrade my 35mm and want to buy into either Canon or Nikon,
    currently using minolta700 with 28-70mm and 70-210mm both fixed f2.8

    I choose nikon or Canon cos they have a abundance of pro lenses, and besides
    they seem to be going places with digital (now) unlike the delayed Minolta
    dslr. I will buy digital when a affordable full frame sensor is released, as
    right now Im happy to shoot film

    What things should I consider?

    Who genrally has the better pro lenses? is it true that all nikon lenses are
    compatible with all nikon bodies?

    There are so so many things for me to think about, any thoughts apreciated
     
    Debbie, Feb 25, 2004
    #1
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  2. Debbie

    ROBMURR Guest

    I need to upgrade my 35mm and want to buy into either Canon or Nikon,
    Well Canon has been leading the way for years with Image stabilization, Eye
    control focusing, and several Tilt and shift lenses...
    Judging by the amount of Nikon used gear and the lack of used EOS
    gear on several dealers shelves locally not hard to see where everyone
    is heading. Look for the long white lenses at sporting events.
    Used to be most all Nikon lenses would work on all Nikon bodies..
    Now they have at least 3 flavors of manual focus lenses and maybe
    3 more types of autofocus lenses. Seems that some will work 100%
    on some bodies, other bodies will not meter with old lenses...
    I will let a Nikon expert tell you what works with what..
    My last Nikon was an F4 so I have not kept up too much with Nikon.
    $2000 might get you similar lenses to what you have now in
    Canon L glass...
     
    ROBMURR, Feb 25, 2004
    #2
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  3. Debbie

    columbotrek Guest

    Canon is usually first with the techno but IMHO Nikon, when they do
    catch up is built better. Well their pro line anyway. I recently read
    an article in a Popular Photography (I think) about how to take great
    photos. Turn off all the techno. My my, we have come full circle.

    By the time a 35mm format sensor is available in your spending limit,
    Minolta will have their dSLR out. They keep leaking that the release is
    imminent. May even be backward compatible with your current lens which
    would be a huge savings. Unless you have work flow issues, don't be in
    a hurry to jump into digital. The final results from Film are still
    better than with digital and unless you are shooting mass quantities,
    less expensive also. My SLR's are still film. I do have a 3Mp Sony S75
    for those times when I want the ability to do some digital captures. In
    fact I have a very nice 5x7 print here on my desk from that Sony. Had
    it professionally printed on emulsion paper though. Ink jet prints just
    don't do it for me. I use the Sony mostly for things I wish to send
    electronically. Another way is to shoot film and have it developed and
    scanned instead of or in addition to being printed. I use a
    professional service shop for that service. They allow me to choose (and
    pay for) the scan resolution.
     
    columbotrek, Feb 25, 2004
    #3
  4. Debbie

    Alan Browne Guest

    ....the _announced_ date is "the fall" or "October" depending on your
    source, and yes, it will be compatible with all Maxxum lenses. Anti
    shake included in the body.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 25, 2004
    #4
  5. I'm going through the same here as well, and I just can't seem to make a
    rational decision. There seems to be little or no difference between
    Canon and Nikon as far as features and quality are conserned, and
    pricewise the difference is quite small, too.

    My decision will most likely be made based on two factors:

    a) Handling and overall feel of the camera
    b) Used equipment availability in the region I live in

    I think I'm leaning towards Nikon at the moment, and the fact that I'll
    most likely buy a dslr combined with the upcoming D70 will probably seal
    the deal for me.

    What I do recommend you to do, is to go somewhere where you can try
    cameras from both Canon and Nikon and see which model seems better for
    you. Like I said, feature/quality are pretty much equal between similar
    models of both brands, so it's quite hard to make a decision based on that.
    More people (pros) seem to use Canon, but I suspect that the fact that
    Canon got a good range of IS lenses to the market before Nikon might
    have persuaded many pros to switch. Qualitywise, I doubt there's much of
    a difference, and now that Nikon seems to be introducing VR (their
    version of IS) lenses, that shouldn't be a problem either.
    Not entirely. I think that you can mount every lens on every body, but
    you might not be able to use all the features of the camera when using
    an "incompatible" lens, eg. metering.
    Tell me about it.. :)

    -JP
     
    Jukka-Pekka Suominen, Feb 25, 2004
    #5
  6. Debbie

    Alan Browne Guest

    70-210 f/2.8 ?? Is that a Sigma?

    Minolta do have a lean line of lenses, and their pro lenses are as good
    as, some better, than their Nikon/Canon counterparts.

    The Minolta body will have Anti-shake built in. So all Maxxum lenses,
    past and present, will benefit from it...including your Sigma.

    (ps: it is not "delayed", it was never announced until PMA2004.)

    Within reason. There are many caveats. See:
    http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/compatibility.html

    Canon, overall for "better". That depends of course on what "better"
    means to you.
    Be patient, digital is still in the "revolution" phase. If you can wait
    a bit, you will be rewarded for your patience.

    If you had to jump RIGHT NOW, go with Canon. They are the leader of the
    pack.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 25, 2004
    #6
  7. Debbie

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Since you are not a beginner you should try out a few of each and make
    your decision based on feel and features rather than advice from others.
    Nikon, Canon and Minolta each have their own interface and their own way of
    working. While Canon has the technological edge over the others it is not in
    anything essential to photography --- although it might be in some area
    essential to your photography. Nikon compatibility is pretty much a joke -
    some lenses are compatible with some bodies but compatible does not mean
    they will meter, etc. You have to buy a top of the line body for anythign
    approaching full compatibility. Minolta has a DSLR coming out in the fall,
    since you appear to be looking for 35mm now, I don't quite see why it
    bothers you that they don't have one today.
     
    Tony Spadaro, Feb 25, 2004
    #7
  8. Debbie

    Tom Guest

    No THAT is funny!

    ROTFLMAO!

    Tom
     
    Tom, Feb 25, 2004
    #8
  9. Debbie

    james parr Guest

    Another thing to think about is that the Minolta use acumatte focus
    screens which are superior to EOS focus screens which looked so much
    darker in comparision.
    Now Im not sure what kind screens are in the nikon, Im betting it isnt
    acumatte
     
    james parr, Feb 25, 2004
    #9
  10. Debbie

    Lourens Smak Guest

    All pro's I know use a tripod. Not always, but about a couple of hundred
    times more often than (most) amateurs...IS/VR was designed for amateurs,
    because amateurs don't like tripods, and they do like gadgets. But some
    pro's will like it too, I guess.

    Lourens
     
    Lourens Smak, Feb 25, 2004
    #10
  11. Debbie

    Steve Kramer Guest


    I shoot Nikon bodies and lenses professionally. I've completely switched
    from film to digital bodies. Were I to start all over again from the
    beginning I'd probably choose Canon equipment for various reasons, none
    of which have anything to do with the quality of the finished product.

    But...
    Nikon 'feels' better in 'my' hands, and does what I need it to do. And
    THOSE are the most important qualities; what feels best in 'YOUR' hands,
    and what produces the outcome that 'YOU' want. Many people say 'digital
    just won't produce a quality image at 3 yards X 5 yards size. Do YOU
    need a 3 yard x 5 yard image? Many people say this body won't handle
    that lens. Do YOU need it to use that lens?

    Rent a Nikon and a Canon and shoot them both for a day or two. Do NOT
    listen to other people's advice. Do NOT listen to laboratory reports. Do
    NOT blindly follow. Decide what YOU need your camera to do for you, try
    them, and decide for yourself.

    Steve Kramer
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    http://www.photoenvisions.com
     
    Steve Kramer, Feb 25, 2004
    #11
  12. Debbie

    TP Guest


    You don't know any pros who use monopods?
     
    TP, Feb 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Debbie

    Alan Browne Guest

    Lourens Smak wrote:


    If a pro shows up at NFL football game on the grass with a tripod he is
    quickly labeled "wannabe" and escorted away. IS lenses maybe, monopod,
    sure, but a tripod? C'mon.

    If a pro shows up in a nature reserve with a 600mm + 2x TC and a
    monopod, he's not taken too seriously either.

    The right equipment for the right place.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 26, 2004
    #13
  14. Debbie

    Skip M Guest

    IS is invaluable on a monopod, or on a tripod in unstable conditions, like
    on a dock or bridge. Don't be too hasty in your assumptions...
    I've never seen anyone on the sidelines of a sporting event with a 35mm
    camera mounted on a tripod. Monopods, yes, and I've seen some monster
    lenses being handheld, and I'd have to say the overwhelming majority of
    those guys are, indeed, pros.
     
    Skip M, Feb 26, 2004
    #14
  15. Debbie

    DM Guest

    Not really. In fact, there are so many incompatibilities between Nikon
    bodies and Nikkor lenses you need a fat manual to figure it out. In fact
    mounting some Nikkor lenses (Pre-AI) on later bodies will damage the
    body. Different Nikkor lenses will be crippled in different ways on
    different Nikon bodies. For example, the new VR lenses won't do VR on
    older workhorse bodies like the N90s. Older manual lenses won't meter
    with newer bodies like the N80 but will meter with older bodies like
    the N70 and N90s.

    In comparison, other mfgrs like Minolta and Canon made a clean break
    when switching to AF, and that has allowed them (not so sure about
    Minolta) to maintain compatibility, e.g., every single Canon EOS body
    can use every single Canon EF lens ever made with no loss in functions.
    I can use my new 100-400 L IS USM lens on my ancient (1988) EOS-630
    and fully utilize USM focusing and image stabilization.

    Here are some links for you:
    http://web.mit.edu/cai/www/nikon/lens.html
    http://medfmt.8k.com/brontenmyths.html (See Myth #23)

    AFAIK the only brand that lets you interchange lenses freely is Pentax,
    and that includes their ancient screw mount lenses. Pentax rulez!! Their
    new *ist Digital is so compact and small, it's lovely.
     
    DM, Feb 26, 2004
    #15
  16. Debbie

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Nonesense. The Expensive teles that dominate all sporting events now are
    IS Canons that work on tripods - it has been demonstrated that IS is worth
    using on a tripod and that is a major reason why you will find more Canons
    covering sports than all the other brands combined.
    Wildlife shooters are going to Canon for the same reason - check out the
    brand Art Wolfe and George Lepp use now, instead of the Nikons they use to
    have.
    The 70-200 IS is very popular with journalists covering politics,
    government and other news events where a tripod would limit the shooter.
    If you don't know what you're talking about, shooting off your mouth
    tends to refelect poorly on you.
     
    Tony Spadaro, Feb 26, 2004
    #16
  17. Debbie

    PhotoMan Guest

    A friend has 14 or 15 Nikon lenses, some dating back to the late 70's, some
    as recent as '98. She wants to go digital, but looks at me and my Canon EOS
    dReb, and goes absolutely ballistic when I remind her that most of her Nikon
    glass simply won't work on any of the Nikon digital bodies. It's a damn
    shame Nikon didn't bite the bullet and make lens compatibility a priority
    when they went to autofocus. Back in '87 when the EOS system was introduced
    I was also quite upset at seeing my almost 80 pounds of FD glass become
    outdated. Looking back, I see the wisdom in Canon's approach - no pins,
    rollers, wheels, levers, tabs, slots, ramps or springs. Twist it on and go,
    without a second thought. It sometimes confuses me momentarily when I
    realize my Tilt/Shift has to be manually focused :) I'll bet there's been a
    good deal of second guessing by Nikon engineers over the years about their
    decision to stay with the old F mount (not to mention the number of them
    that kept their jobs trying to do what they could with what they had to work
    with). Nikon makes some of the absolute best lenses out there, but it's sure
    confusing to the average buyer.
     
    PhotoMan, Feb 26, 2004
    #17
  18. Debbie

    Chris Guest

    Canon and Nikon are generally the best outfits you can own.

    Well, since you posted in a 35mm forum, I'll assume you're not looking to go
    digital, so I'll stick to addressing the SLR camera.

    There are some "used" stores online that can help you out.

    www.adoramacamera.com

    www.keh.com

    and others.

    Also, there are quite afew websites that can tell you some details about the
    various cameras in each manufactured line.

    For instance http://photozone.de

    They're good for other things too, if you're alittle rusty on photography,
    or not that good with the motions yet.

    I'd say for $2000 you should look into a used SLR body (or 2) in excellent
    or better condition, plus a good range of lenses.

    There's the A2 and the "Elan" series in the Canon line for EOS autofocus.
    Canon also has afew very good manual focus cameras for a reasonable price.
    If you want a workhorse manual focus Canon, the A1 or AE-1p are great
    choices. Both of these can be had for around $200 for a body, so you can
    have the bulk of your wealth saved for FD lenses and other accessories. The
    good EOS cameras will run you up to $1000 for all the bells and whistles.

    For Nikon, there's the F90s, F5, and N75 in their autofocus range. These
    can be had used, which I prefer, as above, you can save your $$ for lenses
    and other goodies. With manual focus, the FM2 and F3 are decent, when
    available on the used market.

    Since you mentioned a $2000 range, I've tried to only mention cameras which
    are a) worth their price, and b) have plenty of features. Most if not all
    of these are pro-grade cameras. You'd be happy with any, I'm sure.

    Now, if you're not a "serious" photographer, you can pick up something very
    nice in the Canon EOS line for well under $1000, and bank the rest. I wish
    I had $2000 to spend on a camera. Of course, knowing me, I'd end up wanting
    something else that I missed, even if I bought EVERYTHING.

    In my opinion, either the Canon or Nikon are great cameras. The 2 best
    names in the business. I've got Canon and Minolta products, but only have
    Minolta because of circumstances, not primarily choice. I'd love to have
    the 2 names on every piece of my equipment. Well, good luck. A word of
    advice...be wary with used cameras, especially on the battery. That's the
    primary drawback to getting a camera that is too far back into history,
    while on the plus side the battery will have less work to do generally, it
    may use a battery that is harder to find these days. Before purchasing a
    used camera, make sure that you can acquire a stock of batteries. If you
    can't, it may not be worth the investment on the camera.

    Enjoy your hunt! :)
     
    Chris, Feb 26, 2004
    #18
  19. Debbie

    Annika1980 Guest

    From: Alan Browne
    They won't need anti-shake technology because by the time Minolta releases a
    DSLR all the Minolta shooters will be dead.
     
    Annika1980, Feb 26, 2004
    #19
  20. Debbie

    Annika1980 Guest

    From: Steve Kramer
    I got somethin that would feel even better in your hands.

    Nice advice ... not to listen to.

    C'mon people, the war is over .... Canon won! Get over it.
    Nikon is so 1975.
     
    Annika1980, Feb 26, 2004
    #20
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