Canopus Storm2 & Adobe PPro

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by vic, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. vic

    vic Guest

    After working more with the DVStorm/PP driver, I've come to the conclusion
    that it's a piece of junk.

    The video I made is only 7-minutes in length, a few dissolves, titles
    interviews and B-roll. The lag between monitor window and timeline makes
    OHCI feel faster than the Storm. Terrible!

    I also experienced a few other weird things, the worse being output back to
    DV tape. I got annoying audio drops which I couldn't fix. The drops outs
    were not on the timeline, but show up when I recorded back to tape.

    I replicated by workflo using OHCI just as a test, no dropouts -- everything
    okay.

    I can't believe some people on these boards feel this driver is actually
    okay. Canopus should be ashamed! Terrible.
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. vic

    vic Guest

    (Reprint from Canopus Forum's)

    I was just wonder when will Canopus Attend to the problems with Ppro ?
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. vic

    vic Guest

    (Reprint from Canopus Forum's)

    Is Canopus going to improve the Adobe drivers? - It seems to have been quiet
    since we were all screaming in dissatisfaction about the Storm card with
    Prem Pro - or even Prem 6.5 for that matter - POOF! (who is still dealing
    with that?)

    Seeing Edius and using it - and being a customer - and possibly a future
    Edius user - tell me if - please tell me - please stop the madness -

    Is canopus going to continue with the adobe drivers??????????

    I can see the emphasis on Edius - which is not quit what Pinnacle did - but
    that day came - Liquid -


    And ok - I see HDV coming - so - is there a plan to incorporate a new card
    that would work better with Prem Pro - perhaps like that is coming out with
    the Edius solution. - The bottom line is I like to use Prem Pro - It works
    excellent all by itself - the catch is I do also like some of the special
    effects that the storm provides - slo mo etc...

    I am making plans for future upgrades to our editing software and systems...

    So I hope there is a way to clarify the confusion -

    Thanks,

    A concerned Adobe user going crazy over the NLE I purchased that I thought
    would do some things I thought it would but it can't, but I see other things
    racing past what I thought I bought!
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #3
  4. vic

    vic Guest

    (Reprint from Canopus Forum's)

    Quote:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --


    No matter how you look at, devices and software become obsolete as newer
    technology gets developed and affordable.



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --



    True, but Companies shouldn't use that as an excuse to get away with raping
    their customers. It should be law that a company Must support a product-line
    X amount of time after new technology comes to fruition. Even Microsoft, who
    can do pretty much whatever they want, support their products well ahead of
    their newest technologies.

    But companies should be forced to make good on their claims of support,
    which customers bought into and gave up hard earned monies for !!!!!! I am
    working on several focus groups through national political parties right now
    on this very topic and have used the PPro Drivers issue as an analogy
    (anonymously right now i.e. I don't use Canopus's name) as to what we need
    to legislate against. I am also discovering laws that are already in place
    that aren't being utilized (no one cares enough to make a stink) but can
    also be used to apply pressure to companies that advertise more than they
    can deliver.

    Who knows
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #4
  5. You complain of problems that under the notes you make would not happen with
    as you say "a few disolves, etc.". which would not occur if you had the
    DVStorm configured right in the first place. You probably don't have it in
    the right slot, or one a compatible mainboard. You love to complain but
    don't give information based on equipment, configuration, or installation.
    Tell us what mainboard you are using and what slot the DVStorm is in. Ten to
    one you don't know what you are doing from the word "start"

    I have argued Canopus this and that with you, and finally let's see what is
    the real problem. User error is my guess. In the elementary scenerio you
    outline with you post the Storm would perform flawlessly when configured
    properly. It hasn't go anything to do with the Premiere Pro plug-in!
     
    Digital Video Solutions, Dec 11, 2004
    #5
  6. vic

    vic Guest

    (Copied from Canopus Forum's)

    Took the cob webs off the latest DVStorm driver for Premiere Pro 1.5 and did
    a short video job with it.

    But, has anyone else found sluggish behaviour going between the source
    window and the Premiere timeline with the Storm? There's a 1 sec lag. So
    when you select an in/out point in the monitor window and drag the clip into
    the timeline -- Premiere stalls for a split second, so no action can occur
    on the timeline (like simple timeline playback).

    This totally slows down and so negates the extra responsiveness of running
    the DVStorm with Premiere Pro 1.5, running plain OHCI doesn't have this
    problem, so feels much snappier.

    Let alone all the other problems with these drivers, has anyone else
    experienced this or is it just on my system???
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #6
  7. vic

    vic Guest

    Marco!
    The Canopus drivers for Adobe Premier Pro are rubbish, if you need to use
    the Storm card your best bet is to edit with Edius. Although Edius is
    certainly not everyone's choice (mine included) its the only way. Canopus
    will never release any better drivers for Storm/Pro, so if like me you need
    to edit with Premier Pro there's only one option.....change your card.
    Mike
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #7
  8. vic

    vic Guest

    I just wasted $1500 on a bloody Storm2 Pro card beleiving it would run
    Premiere nice a smoothly with RT effects and Xsitions!!! Can i sue these
    bums for mis-information???
     
    vic, Dec 11, 2004
    #8
  9. vic

    vic Guest

    I think what's happened is OHCI/firewire has matured and PC/drives have
    gotten faster. NLE software like Premiere Pro and Vegas which years ago
    required the Storm for any kind of productivity, now doesn't. In the
    meantime, the DVStorm which should have improved and only got better, got
    worse! So, to my mind now, the Storm just adds lots of new bugs and
    wrinkles.

    I understand your anger but I try not get angry at Canopus, I'm sure they're
    trying, it's obvious Premiere Pro is a hard nut to crack for them and
    obviously they made some mistakes. I do think it's important that views are
    expressed here and truth about the product is given both by us the users and
    by Canopus.

    There was a guy here posting recently in regards to if people on this board
    would recommend a Storm2. I can't believe how mature everyone was, by not
    blasting that post with negative comments about the Storm. Canopus has
    incredibly loyal customers.

    I'm sticking to Prem 6.5/Storm and calling it a night. I'm working mostly
    with OHCI and Vegas. But I almost kind of wish Canopus would make a
    statement like, "DVStorm is only packaged with Edius from now on, and no
    longer supports Premiere Pro" -- and give all DVStorm users, a free copy of
    Edius. I don't like Edius either, to my mind, Canopus should have put the
    development team of that software on to Premiere Pro drivers.

    MB
     
    vic, Dec 12, 2004
    #9
  10. vic

    vic Guest

    I have the perfect for solution for a rock solid system with no audio
    issues. I have two work stations, so after getting multicam for premiere pro
    I decided to put premiere pro on one. Got it working quickly. Tested it out
    with some short chunks of video. Loaded in a 1.5 hour clip. The audio
    repeats every 9 minutes or so, and that is after making me wait for it to be
    conformed. After looking at the posts I think I have noted that there is not
    anything that works worth a hoot for fixing the audio issues. Spent quit a
    number of hours going back to 6.5. I worked with the clip and it was solid
    as a rock. Actually, after the new install the whole thing seems to be a
    little faster. Has a lot of good realtime features. I think Canopus should
    just say they don't support premiere pro at this time and go on with life.

    On a side note, my ADVC-100 came today, brand spankin new, DOA. I can't even
    call and complain since it is a holiday.
     
    vic, Dec 12, 2004
    #10
  11. vic

    vic Guest

    I just came across this issue and I'm as frustrated as like everybody here.
    Some AVI clips get out of sycn. It started to mess up around the 9 min mark.
    I followed what StormDave recommended, unlink the media and link it back. It
    works! (Thanks StormDave) It's a workaround but it's a major issue! Luckily
    I bought this card last week. I might just return it and stick with the OHCI
    firewire card!
     
    vic, Dec 15, 2004
    #11
  12. vic

    vic Guest

    I think someone recommend the same in other thread to you but I will do the
    same recommendation again.

    If you go to use PPro, return the dvStorm ASAP, it does not worth the
    hassle, only Edius benefits of it.

    Not believe advertisings like this Storm with PPro it does not work.
     
    vic, Dec 15, 2004
    #12
  13. vic

    vic Guest

    In my case, this issue (async audio video) also appears on clips with 4 or 5
    min. The time doesn't matter on my side.

    So, unlink and link can help, but not every time ! When i start to do
    something else on my pc while conforming audio with ppro 1.5, the problem
    also appear in this case.

    Plus, with ~ 50 clips in a project, it's a mess....

    Whatever, Canopus must correct this problem in the plugin !!!I hope they see
    this thread and still working on this !!!
     
    vic, Dec 15, 2004
    #13
  14. vic

    vic Guest

    Now that the new Edius boards have been released and the Storm is
    essentially end of life, I would like to ask for the last time, will
    someone....anyone.....from Canopus oficially state, whether the exisiting
    issues with the Storm are going to be fixed or are we to be left with
    useless hadrware. I am talking about things such as the audio glitch on
    playback of rt effects in Premiere for example, it is not a missing feature
    or something that would be nice to have, it is a BUG that has made my Storm
    with Premiere Pro COMPLETELY USELESS for production purposes.

    So I think all exisiting Storm users would love to know, will the bugs with
    the Storm be fixed? and please dont say, buy Edius, no bugs there, as I am
    running Premiere, I bought the Storm to run Premiere and Edius WILL NOT DO
    what I need it to do whereas Premiere will!

    Evan
    A rather concerned Canopus owner!
     
    vic, Dec 17, 2004
    #14
  15. vic

    vic Guest

    My advice would be not to wait any longer if you're not getting the
    resolution you need from Canopus. Since you really want to use Premiere Pro
    and it isn't working right for you with the DVStorm hardware, I'd say sell
    the hardware to someone who uses Edius and use the money to upgrade your
    computer for running Premiere Pro faster on its own.

    By the way, I've heard Adobe representatives describe Premiere Pro as
    essentially a complete rewrite of the program from the ground up, and I
    doubt they would have made compatibility with DVStorm a priority. So draw
    your own conclusions about whether Canopus will ever be able to fully
    deliver on support for Premiere Pro with hardware developed over four years
    ago. If there's a problem here, it's that Canopus led people to believe they
    could do something which they've arguably failed to do. If they hadn't
    promised that, there'd be a lot less disappointment around here.
     
    vic, Dec 17, 2004
    #15
  16. vic

    vic Guest

    Well, once again I have been up for 2 days trying to export a 52 minute
    Premiere Pro 1.5 project. I have tried export with plugin procorder 2.0 and
    then I just to a big old AVI on my NTFS volume. It looks like I am going to
    have to split the project timelime into 2 smaller parts and then try to
    encode in the procorder standalone app instead - which is what I am trying
    now The audio is conforming as I write - an it takes a while with two 6GB
    files...

    So do get the parts back together, do I bring them back into a new premiere
    project and try exporting to procorder again?
    Or do I encode the parts and then try to link them together in my DVD
    authoring app in a playlist and hope they will play in order?
    Or do I use another app to join the AVI files...
    what a pain, a simple 3 hour export through procorder and I would have been
    done... but nooooo, I have to spend 2 days futzing around with this piece of
    #*%$ application/hardware/storm solution...
    I have tried renaming the premiere file
    I have tried turning off still image cache
    I have tried setting the cpu affininty to 1 cpu
    I have tried deleting the prem pref file and saving the file to a new
    project...

    Anything else I could try? I don't care. This sucks.
    -Grrrrrrr
     
    vic, Dec 17, 2004
    #16
  17. vic

    vic Guest

    Update - outputing to 2 6GB Canopus AVI files, re-importing them into a new
    premiere pro project and encoding with procoder 2.0 through premiere worked.
    Now why do I have to jump through so many dang hoops to get this to work?
    The effort should be in the editing, not in the fooling around try to get
    output...
     
    vic, Dec 17, 2004
    #17
  18. vic

    vic Guest

    It is because there are serious memory leaks not fixed in the Canopus PPro
    plugin.

    Export in segments is the only solution like you have discovered, there is
    not rule for how small the segments have to be, it depends of the
    filters/transitions applied to the timeline. In my case when I used the
    DvStorm I had to export in 10 minutes fragments.

    It has been said a lot of times here but if you are having more problems,
    give a try to OHCI mode (disabling DvStorm) with PPro, you will be amazed.
     
    vic, Dec 17, 2004
    #18
  19. vic

    vic Guest

    Quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --

    By the way, I've heard Adobe representatives describe Premiere Pro as
    essentially a complete rewrite of the program from the ground up, and I
    doubt they would have made compatibility with DVStorm a priority


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --


    Arghh, I dont like when someone try to pass the buck to Adobe

    Adobe has not to move a finger in this issue; this is only a Canopus issue.
    Adobe is not bundling his software with Canopus, Adobe has not to make his
    product compatible with anything, Canopus is who is bundling his software
    with PPro and have to make it compatible with PPro, if Canopus can not make
    a working plugin, STOP BUDNLING WITH PPro, period.


    Quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --

    If there's a problem here, it's that Canopus led people to believe they
    could do something which they've arguably failed to do. If they hadn't
    promised that, there'd be a lot less disappointment around here.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --



    And I don't like either when people talk in past about a present issue.

    Canopus is still using Adobe to sell his Canopus hardware, look at his
    present "propaganda"
    http://www.canopus.us/US/pdf/ENGLISH_STORMPRO_PREMPRO_VA060404G_print.pdf
    It is easy, if you can not to do it to work with Adobe, stop the propaganda
    and sell your Canopus products ONLY with Edius.

    If I was Adobe I would prohibit to Canopus to bundle my software with his
    hardware.
     
    vic, Dec 18, 2004
    #19
  20. vic

    vic Guest

    Quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --

    I've heard Adobe representatives describe Premiere Pro as essentially a
    complete rewrite of the program from the ground up, and I doubt they would
    have made compatibility with DVStorm a priority.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --


    Like Dizy said, its not up to Adobe to fashion a product to 3rd party
    hardware, Adobe built Ppro from the ground up, Canopus built their Ppro
    drivers on their existing insufficient Premiere 6.5 drivers, instead of
    building from the ground up.


    Quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --

    So draw your own conclusions about whether Canopus will ever be able to
    fully deliver on support for Premiere Pro with hardware developed over four
    years ago. If there's a problem here, it's that Canopus led people to
    believe they could do something which they've arguably failed to do


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --


    Since they are advertising their new products with Ppro one would hope that
    they are busy developing true drivers for Ppro which may trickle
    down,(hopefully not on a inseam)
     
    vic, Dec 18, 2004
    #20
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