Changing soundtrack on finished DVD?

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Terry Pinnell, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. I made a DVD some months ago which is spoiled by its soundtrack being
    stuttery and distorted in several places. The video content is OK. So
    I want to replace it with a new one and make a new DVD. How do I most
    easily achieve this please? It would be impractical to go right back
    to scratch and re-build it again in MemoriesOnTV or MovieMaker or
    PhotoStory, mainly because many of the JPG and AVI files have since
    been re-organised, or even deleted.

    So far I have copied the 'main' (non-menu) VOB file from the DVD to my
    HD and changing its name to NewDVD.mpg. This plays OK in various
    players, and in VirtualDub. But how do I now proceed to replace the
    audio and make a new DVD please?

    I have stacks of software, some free some commercial, but the main
    tools that I think are relevant are:
    - NeroVision Express. I gather the consensus is to avoid it

    - TMPGEnc DVD Author. I have so far not used it, because to be honest
    I find it intimidating. So many options to set! But I would like to
    learn now, with a bit of help. This seems a simple project to start
    with...

    - TMPGEnc 3.0 Express. Ditto.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated please.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Terry Pinnell

    Ken Maltby Guest


    Ok, I can try and help you get started with the TMPGEnc
    products, but don't let any software "intimidate" you. The
    makers of software are trying to make the main function or
    objective of the program be the most obvious and natural
    result of using the program. To do this they use "Defaults",
    for the possible settings, that they expect match the best
    options for most users to achieve the best possible result.

    Some software makes it so you only see the "Defaults" and
    thus make it appear a simpler process. The problem with
    that is then when you do learn how to make good use of the
    settings/parameters you have nothing there to make any
    different settings.

    So, just leave the settings, of any software that appears too
    intimidating, on their defaults, at first. Then look at the results
    and note any warnings or error messages. From them you
    should get an idea of what might be causing any problems/
    poor results. Then you can read the help for those settings
    that you think may be involved and or research the factor
    being set.


    I can help with TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 (TDA) and
    3.0 XPress. There is another poster "TradeHound" who
    is working with TDA 2.0, who might be able to help with
    that.


    ----------

    Now for your current project:

    Start a new project in TDA and put your old DVD in
    your DVD drive. Click on the "Add DVD video"
    button. It should find the VIDEO_TS folder on the
    old DVD (if it didn't, navigate to it in the selection
    box)

    Select the video "Title" that you want to be first on the
    new DVD you will be making. (Don't worry about the
    audio at this point, we will be replacing it anyway)

    This should bring up a window to set the "Destination
    folder" that TDA will place the properly extracted .mpg
    files of the "Title" into. You can also set it to use the
    "Chapter data" from the old DVD. Note where the
    "Destination folder" is located. (The .mpg placed in that
    folder are available for your use in any program, even
    after you shut TDA down.) [This step can take a little
    while to finish.]

    Now you should have the "Add clip" window up.
    The "Video settings" box will list your destination folder
    with a file like \TDA-DVS-2006-10-01-0000.mpg

    The "Audio settings" should now be showing the same
    file for the "Audio input file name:". ( This is where we
    will be changing to your new audio file, when making your
    new DVD.) For now you can ignore it.

    To be able to sync the new audio to the video, you will
    need the time codes for the video events you want to sync
    to. Click on the "Chapter cut edit" button. Note the "LEN"
    time code (something like 00:44:32;29, [this is 00hours, 44
    minutes, 32seconds, 29/30 seconds] ) You want to use
    the time codes not the frame numbers, for what you are
    trying to do.

    Now if you want to use different audio for different parts
    of your "Title"/track/clip, you can find and note the "IN"
    and "OUT" times for the video events, so that you can
    make your new audio match the video. ( Your project
    isn't likely to need any better sycn than this would provide
    but for projects that could, minor adjustments can be made
    later in the process.)

    It would be a good idea to save the project at this point.

    Now we can deal with the audio. The free "Audacity"
    program has worked for me. You can use it to try and
    fix the existing audio or to build a new audio file altogether.
    You have the total time for the clip ( the LEN ) and any
    times for events you want different audio for. You can
    add together audio files, even add a voice-over if you want,
    trimming and adding silence to make the finished audio .wav
    file match the "LEN". Export as a .wav file (Microsoft 16
    bit PCM) 48000Hz Sample rate (the sample rate should
    match what was shown in the "Add clip" audio settings box,
    of TDA, when you extracted it from the old DVD.)

    Now you should have a .wav file that you can use to
    replace the current audio for your first Title/"track", in TDA.

    Load your TDA project and click on the "Edit" button of
    your clip. Now you can select the new audio file (.wav)
    you made, using the "Browse" button in the "Audio settings"
    box. Check the "Re-encode the audio using the output
    format of the track." box, as well. Click on the OK button.

    Then click on the "Settings" button in the little "Untitled track
    1" box. Change the "Audio format" > "Compression format:"
    to "MPEG-1 Audio layer-2"; unless you have the AC3 Plugin
    and want to use that.

    That's it, for your first track/title. If you have more on the old
    DVD you would click on the blue "Add new track..." text, then
    use the "Add DVD video" button again. Select the "Title" you
    want to be the second track.

    Once you have all the tracks for new DVD, with the audio you
    want, you can go ahead and "Create menu". There is a lot more
    you can do here than you can see at first, for now just use one of
    the supplied menu themes and the defaults. (Later, if you save the
    project when we are done, we can come back and go over how
    to make better menus, for this DVD.)

    Now all that is left is the "Output" process. Have TDA "Create
    DVD folder" and note where it will be made. Then "Begin output".
    It should take about 15-20min to make the DVD folder, all ready
    to burn to a DVD. When it's done, use a software DVD player
    to play the DVD from your hard drive, and be sure it is working
    as you want it to. If you want to change anything you can without
    having wasted a DVD blank disk.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Oct 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. That's great, thanks. I aim to tackle this within the next day or so
    and I'll report back. Much appreciate your kind help.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 3, 2006
    #3
  4. OK, I managed to make my first stab at this tonight, but hit problems.
    I've commented inline.
    OK. (I'll come back later about terminology. Can't quite get my mind
    around 'Title'. I think the software I've been using calls these
    'albums', or maybe 'tracks'.)
    OK. I set up a new folder for this.
    OK, I will.
    I'd never have discovered that without your guide! For a start, I'm
    not using 'chapters'. And not clear what 'cut edit' means? Possibly
    the just tab means 'Edit chapter'?
    It's 00:06:54:19
    I might have guessed that the numbers below, '0/10369', were something
    to do with frames, but your comment made it obvious. BTW, I'm using
    25fps, not 30, and a quick check shows that matches exactly. Again,
    I'd have had a struggle to work out that the final ':19' meant '19
    frames'.

    I'm sure I too will learn to respect TDA, but IMO intuitive it's not!
    Hmm, how do I do that from here? OK, I clicked OK and then eventually
    found the Save facility. Must say it's the first time I've ever seen
    that under 'Options'!
    This is where I hit trouble! I used GoldWave Digital Audio Editor to
    make a WAV file of 6:54.8 duration. (FWIW, the last 8 s was faded to
    silence. Because the full Mozart MP3 is 12:17.)
    I got:
    "Illegal audio format.
    For a standard DVD you can only use the following audio formats.
    Dolby Digital, MPEG-1 Audio Layer-2, or Linear PCM."

    Yet the WAV I made in GoldWave Digital Audio Editor *was* in that
    format. Opening the WAV again in GoldWave, its status line says
    'Wave PCM signed 16 bit, 44100 Hz, 1411 kbps, stereo'.

    I'm unfamiliar with Audacity, but I found that I do have it installed.
    So I repeated the exercise with that, making a WAV of similar length
    and in the default format. (I take it that absolute precision is
    unnecessary? IOW, 6:54.8 or 6:54.9 will do for the audio file to match
    the above length of 6:54:19 = 6:54.76?)

    TDA gave me the same error with that too.

    So then I tried another angle, based on a reply I had elsewhere to
    "...download ffmpeggui and use it to convert the mp3 audio to AC3
    before authoring." I did that, made an AC3, and TDA accepted it. But
    that promise was short-lived.
    When I did that I got
    "You cannot re-encode the Audio format "Dolby Digital, 2 ch".
    So I clicked OK instead to leave that Edit window and return to the
    'Source Setup' window.
    Clicking that brought up the Track Settings window. But all the
    settings in the Audio section were greyed out (except 'Multi audio
    mode'). Here's a screenshot
    http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/TDA-01.gif

    So I'm stumped for now ;-(

    Hope you can me back on course please! Happy to provide whatever
    detail you need.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 3, 2006
    #4
  5. Terry Pinnell

    Frank Guest


    Try a 48 kHz sampling rate instead of a 44.1 kHz sampling rate and see
    what happens.
     
    Frank, Oct 3, 2006
    #5
  6. Thanks, but I'm not following you. The sampling rate is already 48 kHz
    isn't it? That was the setting I used in GoldWave when I saved the
    edited MP3 as WAV. And that's shown in the screenshot I provided, yes?

    Bear with me if I'm missing something obvious. As I said earlier, this
    is mostly all new ground to me.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 3, 2006
    #6
  7. Terry Pinnell

    Ken Maltby Guest

    Hmmm... TDA should be able to accept the audio and
    change the sample rate to 48000, but that bit rate should be
    1536kbps/uncompressed.
    Was the "Uncompressed Export Format" set to
    "WAV (Microsoft 16 bit PCM)" in the "File Formats"
    tab of the preferences? Did you change the "Default
    Sample Rate:" to 48000Hz, in the "Quality" tab?
    That was for working with a .wav file, you don't need to
    compress AC3.
    Without the AC3 plugin, TDA doesn't render AC3, so you
    won't hear it and can't transcode it, within TDA. It will pass
    AC3 through to the DVD though. (In fact I disable the plugin
    when I want to use AC3 5.1ch audio)
    That should mean the audio will be in the DVD when it
    is authored. If you go ahead and have TDA create the DVD
    on your hard drive, you should be able to play it with a PC
    DVD Player program, and hear the audio.
     
    Ken Maltby, Oct 3, 2006
    #7
  8. Terry Pinnell

    Frank Guest


    Terry, you had written:
    Sorry, but I didn't have time to look at the screenshot. I was just
    going by what you had written. 44100 Hz = 44.1 kHz.

    Also, in my opinion, if you're not trying to cram a lot of video (in
    terms of running time, that is) onto the disc, don't use lossy
    compressed audio formats like MPEG-1 Layer 2 (.mp2) or Dolby Digital
    (.ac3), just leave it as non-compressed LPCM. It will sound better.
     
    Frank, Oct 3, 2006
    #8
  9. Thanks for the fast follow-up. I've obviously screwed up somewhere,
    and - from your comments and Frank's - I suspect it must be when I
    made the WAV file. It's late here so I'll get back on the case
    tomorrow morning.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 3, 2006
    #9
  10. Terry Pinnell

    Jukka Aho Guest

    A crash course to DVD terminology:

    - A "Title" is a single video program on the disc - such as a "Making
    of" featurette, the main movie, or a single episode of a tv series.

    - What is commonly called a "Chapter" is actually (more officially)
    called a "Part of Title", or PTT.

    - The DVD format structures Titles into "Video Title Sets". All titles
    in a single Video Title Set (VTS) share some technical qualities, such
    as the aspect ratio. (For instance, if you need to store both 12F12 and
    16F16 material on a single DVD, the titles with different aspect ratios
    would need to be stored in different Video Title Sets.)

    It doesn't end there. There are cells, PCGs, VMG, virtual machine
    commands, etc. Simple consumer-oriented DVD authoring applications will
    usually hide these technical terms and structures from the end-user's
    view and allow access only to a subset of the (possible) features you
    could use. If you want to get your hands dirty with the gritty
    underpinnings of the DVD format, get Sonic Scenarist (well, not
    really... the price tag is quite hefty!) or DVD-lab Pro, since these two
    programs allow a more low-level, unrestricted access to everything.

    For starters, you might want to take a look at
    <http://www.dvd-replica.com/DVD/index.php>. (The navigation on that site
    is somewhat awkward. Notice the page numbers on the blue horizontal bar
    and the chapter links under the title "Unofficial DVD Specifications" on
    the left.) While you're at it, these could be worth a look as well:
    <http://www.dvddemystified.com/>.
     
    Jukka Aho, Oct 4, 2006
    #10
  11. Thanks Frank. Of course, that's it! Embarrassed to see I didn't spot
    that obvious contradiction. I'll repeat the exercise again this
    morning and report back again here to Ken against his step-by-step.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Many thanks, that should prove very useful as I get more deeply into
    this. As a novice amateur end-user though, I'd prefer to keep the
    technical minutiae under the bonnet. Unless I *need* to know in order
    to get the results I want, of course.

    I've also been influenced by working a lot with MemoriesOnTV, which
    deals in 'albums' and 'tracks'.
    http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MoTV-Albums.gif

    For example, many of my projects are very simple in structure, with
    just one album containing one track, like this holiday DVD:
    http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MoTV-Simplest.gif
    That track contains digicam photos (with pan/zoom/effects/transitions
    applied), digicam AVI clips, and a few specialised AVIs made from
    Google Earth. And has a single MP3 soundtrack (using MoTV's 'fade out'
    option on it, as the music duration is longer than the video). For a
    longer DVD, or if I wanted a greater variety of shorter music tracks,
    I'd have 1 album and multiple tracks, with separate MP3s assigned to
    each track.

    That simple project would end up with a DVD menu like this:
    http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MoTV-SimpleMenu.gif
    I'd usually use the same 1-button menu design for the multiple track
    DVD too, as I just want it to play from start to finish.

    So, to me, up until now 'Title' has just been the text heading for the
    menu! Although another application I've used a bit, NeroVision
    Express, uses the term in its DVD context. And, muddying the water for
    me a bit more, I gather that TDA's labels differ in some respects from
    most other programs. Added hurdles to jump, but I hope to get there
    eventually ;-)
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #12
  13. Terry Pinnell

    Ken Maltby Guest


    You can use the 3.0 XPress "Source Wizard" button to
    extract the video from your "old DVD" and it would accept
    your .mp3 file, or most anything you can play, as the input
    audio for your project. The encoder has templates for DVD
    compatible output which includes the audio. Then author
    with TDA or any other authoring program.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Oct 4, 2006
    #13
  14. Happy to report success! Bottom line is that your instructions all
    worked perfectly. As you've probably already seen, my problem last
    night was down to my not setting 48 kHz. A few more comments and
    queries inline.
    OK, this time I didn't skip over the audio. I note that TDA specifies
    audio to use = 48 kHz.
    As before, I found that 'Chapter Cut Edit' tab daunting! So after
    noting the duration (06:54:19, which equates to 6:54.8) I was happy to
    leave it.
    OK, all fine so far.
    Looking at my original file with MediaMonkey:
    Length: 12:17
    File size: 11794560
    Bitrate: 128
    VBR: No
    Frequency: 44 100
    Stereo: Stereo

    I spent a long time preparing the WAV file I would need. Mainly
    because I'd clearly gone wrong yesterday. And also to get comfortable
    with using alternative conversion tools. One aspect that was new to me
    was the need to think about sample rates, as 48 kHz is apparently
    needed by TDA. And I'm not at all clear about bitrate issues. But
    anyway, what I did was:

    1) Made a new MP3 file by using GoldWave to trim the existing 12:17
    track to 6:55 and then fading the last 10 seconds.

    2) Used various tools to convert that to a WAV file.
    - MediaMonkey
    - dBpowerAMP
    - Switch
    - GoldWave.

    I settled on GoldWave, using PCM, 16 bit, stereo. (BTW, result showed
    1536 bitrate in MediaMonkey info. And I think VBR was now shown as
    'ON'.)
    I'm actually still in the Add Clip window.
    OK, done.
    OK this time - looking good!
    Not sure exactly what 'Re-encode the audio using the output format of
    the track' means though? Why would I ever *not* want to check this?
    What would happen if I didn't? (Maybe I'll try it in a while.)

    So now I must click OK to close the Add clip window.
    OK, done that. (I'll also repeat this shortly to try Frank's
    suggestion of leaving it as PCM.)
    That would be great, thanks. Meanwhile I settled for Cloud1 from that
    very sparse selection of themes. (Couldn't see any difference in
    Cloud2 BTW.)
    http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/TDA-Menu01.jpg
    I tried to drag that single button to a more satisfying size and
    position (as I can in NeroVision and MemoriesOnTV) but so far haven't
    succeeded. Also, I'd like to remove the 'Play All' button, which is
    usually redundant in my ultra-simple menus. Can those be done? And can
    I prevent the DVD opening with my button image *already* highlighted
    in the set colour, i.e. before it's been selected by the user? That
    cosmetic spoils the initial appearance, IMO.
    Obviously it was much faster in my case for this tiny (7 min) DVD. All
    seemed very straightforward. But if I click No when first offered the
    DVD Writing Tool, how can I then invoke it later, or after re-opening
    the project? Also, when would I want to use Create ISO instead of
    Create DVD please? And is there any merit in using external programs
    like ImgBurn and ImgTool Classic, which I've seen advocated by some?

    Success! The DVD (on HD) was fine, video and audio. However, my
    soundtrack editing must have been slightly wrong, because the music
    has not quite faded out by the time the DVD ends. Odd, because I
    allowed an 11 s fade from 6:44 to 6:55. That does seem one weakness of
    TDA, having no preview facility (as there is in NeroVision and
    MemoriesOnTV). I'll now make another WAV externally with a longer
    fade, and rerun TDA. No big deal for this short project, but it would
    be a PITA for an hour's video, just for a 3 sec audio edit at the very
    end!

    I can't thank you enough for your help on this. I always learn better
    by 'doing'. I've been putting off TDA for months, and your
    step-by-step instructions were exactly what I needed to break the ice.
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #14
  15. Terry Pinnell

    Jukka Aho Guest

    48 kHz (instead of 44.1 kHz) is mandated by the DVD standard. See here
    for the allowed audio formats:

    <http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.6.2>
     
    Jukka Aho, Oct 4, 2006
    #15
  16. Thanks. It's probably a naive question, but why then do most of my
    MP3s show a frequency of 44.1 kHz please? I've always thought it a
    rather odd sort of figure. Does it arise from some other standard?
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #16
  17. Terry Pinnell

    Jukka Aho Guest

    Most MP3s are sourced from audio CDs and 44.1 kHz is the sampling
    frequency mandated by the Red Book audio CD standard.
    Actually, that sampling rate is related to analog video, in a rather odd
    roundabout way:

    <http://google.com/groups?selm=>
     
    Jukka Aho, Oct 4, 2006
    #17
  18. Terry Pinnell

    Ray S Guest

    Possibly because 44.1 is the standard for CD audio.
     
    Ray S, Oct 4, 2006
    #18
  19. Thanks for that interesting follow-up. Not such a naive question after
    all then! Sure looks a complicated route to arrive at 44.1 ;-)
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #19
  20. Thanks, yes, so I now understand. But what an odd choice...
     
    Terry Pinnell, Oct 4, 2006
    #20
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