CHDK Successfully Ported to Canon G7 Firmware v1.00g

Discussion in 'Canon' started by KevenGaston, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    Hot off the presses:

    CHDK has just been successfully compiled for the Canon Powershot G7, firmware
    version 1.00g. Adding one more Digic III camera to the collection of cameras now
    supported by CHDK (previously ported to the G7 fw v1.00i, and many other Digic
    II models).

    In case you don't know what CHDK is, full details can be found at
    http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
    http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK/FAQ
    http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK/HDK_firmware_usage

    How to find the firmware version of your camera to see if the new files may be
    used with your particular PowerShot G7:
    http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CH...ginal_firmware_version_number_of_my_camera.3F


    For links to G7 fw v1.00g working binaries ands source-code downloads, start
    reading here:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=25124261

    There may be a small power-switch issue at this time, as reported by one user
    (user-error, or less-likely, SD card format incompatibility for auto-boot
    feature suspected). Others report no bugs yet.

    Also: don't miss the announcement about the new Stereo-Data-Maker version of
    CHDK. Now with uBASIC commands to control all camera LEDs for remote script
    control monitoring and external device triggering, now also including the new
    (and amazing) motion-detection feature written by MX3. LED light commands in
    CHDK scripts may be triggered with motion detection features for testing
    purposes, but more importantly for visual image recording and script-function
    confirmations at great distances.

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=25124509


    Important CHDK uBASIC script LED command information:

    If you use an S3 IS (may also be applicable to the S2 IS) and also write CHDK
    uBASIC scripts make note of this, as this information does not appear anywhere
    else, yet.

    The S3 IS camera has one more light than other camera models, the bright amber
    Timer/Tally light in front, used to remotely confirm video-recording and delay
    timer modes, also used to assist with red-eye reduction when flash is enabled.
    Script control of this lamp went accidentally undocumented on the author's site.
    It may be controlled with uBASIC commands of "timer_led_on" and "timer_led_off".
    Also, due to unique S3 IS differences, the more generic "amber_led_on" and
    "amber_led_off" commands applicable for all other cameras actually refers to the
    bright red LED light on the back of the S3 IS. All other LED uBASIC commands
    control their respectively colored LEDs: "af_light_on" = bright green
    focus-assist lamp, "blue_led_on" = ultra-bright blue LED embedded in the
    SET/PRINT button, "yellow_led_on" = yellow LED near on/off switch,
    "green_led_on" = green LED near on/off switch. In order to keep any resulting
    scripts more universally adaptable to all other cameras, these command colors
    were left as-is rather than making them unique and S3 IS specific.

    If using these LED commands in your CHDK scripts be sure to restore any lamps
    with the appropriate uBASIC commands to their pre-script conditions before
    exiting script control. Failure to do so for the green or yellow indicator LED
    by the on/off switch may fool you into thinking your camera is off when it's
    still on.
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 8, 2007
    #1
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  2. KevenGaston

    ~~NoMad~~ Guest


    I am looking forward to a CHDK release my new Canon SX100is and if there is
    any way I can help this along please let me know. I would be more than happy
    to use my camera as a test bed.

    NM
     
    ~~NoMad~~, Oct 8, 2007
    #2
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  3. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    Your best bet would to thoroughly read any and all information in the Wiki pages
    on how others have successfully ported it to various camera makes and models. If
    you can't do it from that then you need to plug yourself into the EXTENSIVE
    discussions concerning this on the dpreview forums about CHDK. If you are fluent
    in German then plug yourself into the original discussion forums that started
    this all and where they are still discussing development on it (link available
    on the main Wiki page). There are now a total of 17 threads of 150 posts each,
    and many other miscellaneous threads discussing all of this at dpreview, tomes
    more at the German site. It's a daunting mess to have to sort through to find
    the important bits but most of it is there, scattered throughout the various
    discussion threads. Much information and new methods for extracting the original
    firmware from the G7 line of cameras was recently discussed at great lengths on
    dpreview, some providing simple improvements in hardware and coding methods to
    make it easier for other camera models. Read it all if you can. Post your
    questions in those threads. Those who have gone before can help you to figure
    out how to supply a copy of your camera's firmware to those that will perform
    the final compiled "magic".

    I understand this isn't easy for someone that wants it done for their as-yet
    unsupported camera, but you have to realize that those that know how to do it
    don't have access to your camera model, nor will they go out and buy one just to
    create the firmware just for you. If you really want it for your make and model
    of camera you will have to do the work to build the photo-transistor circuit,
    extract and record the firmware data, and supply the resulting data for those in
    the know.

    I wish there was a simpler way to make this possible for you. Unfortunately this
    is on a camera-owner by camera-owner basis. It really is all up to you. Unless
    you can drum up some interest among many other SX100 IS owners who might be able
    to help you, you're on your own in trying to get it done. From what I've seen it
    will get done, but not if you just sit back and wait for someone else to do it
    for you. Wishing doesn't make CHDK happen, actually working on it yourself makes
    it happen. (Like the old song line, "If wishes were horses then beggars would
    ride...") You need to push the issue where it will be seen by GrAnd and others
    at dpreview, or on the Wiki pages, show a real incentive to stumble along in
    trying to do it yourself, reporting your attempts to others, where you're having
    problems trying to figure it out, etc. The others will jump in to help if you
    show a genuine effort to make it happen for everyone else that has the same
    camera as yours.

    This is the only advice that I can offer at this time.

    Good luck!
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 8, 2007
    #3
  4. KevenGaston

    ~~NoMad~~ Guest

    Thanks for the direction. Pretty much what I figured. I've been reading
    some of the forum postings. Being an old assembly language programmer, it
    might be fun to get back into a project like this. I have a Canon S410 along
    with the SX100 so I could play with two different platforms for a while to
    get aquatinted. FWIW I did get ver.req working on both cameras.

    Thanks again.

    NM
     
    ~~NoMad~~, Oct 8, 2007
    #4
  5. KevenGaston

    EAL Guest

    It's interesting to speculate how camera viruses would propagate.
    Would the camera sneak around at night when nobody is looking and
    infect other cameras? Would it usurp control of the focus assist beam
    and transmit itself that way to cameras it passes on the street?

    Time only will tell!

    Ed
     
    EAL, Oct 8, 2007
    #5
  6. How's that live preview of under/over exposure areas showing up on that optical
    viewfinder of yours? Do you get the option of setting the triggering threshold
    for each (under or over exposure) at an 8bit resolution like I do?

    How are those 6 different live-histograms with various Y-RGB options displayed
    in their respective colors? Does your camera allow for easy placement of them in
    your optical viewfinder? I love that feature about CHDK display elements, being
    able to move all to exactly where I want them by 1-pixel directions and
    locations.

    How's your hyperfocal distance and DOF calculation display going for you in that
    optical viewfinder in that DSLR? Do you find that its zoom-lens f.l. number
    accurately matches what's on the lens?

    When setting your camera's zoom-lens focal-length to 217mm, do you find much
    accuracy in that? I love that about CHDK, being able to recreate the EXACT
    zoom-lens focal-length and even the exact focus setting to 1mm precision.
    Wonderful for research documentation purposes when needing controls in the data.

    Do you seem to be having any problems with motion-detection for taking those
    really crappy hummingbird photos of yours while you're not around to throw rocks
    at them? They'd appreciate it if you could get that working so you don't try to
    kill them anymore just for the entertainment value that you get out of it. A
    true story for those of you that don't know this about Annika. He admitted it
    himself that he throws things at the hummingbirds, trying to hit them with
    objects a hundred times heavier than they are when he's bored and for the
    challenge of it.

    By the way, did your last intervalometer session work out when you were trying
    to capture the sun setting at 1 frame per second, lasting until sunrise?

    Did those intervalometer triggered VIDEO and AUDIO clips of yours work out to
    document those changes in bee-hive activity over a 24 hour period?

    Funny you should mention quality, pixel for pixel people are finding little to
    no difference between the high-quality P&S cameras and DSLRs these days. Some of
    the P&S cameras doing even better than the DSLRs. The only ones that do see
    continual better quality in the DSLR images are the ones that still live under
    the delusion of "you get what you pay for", thinking they can impress others
    with money, while desperately trying to justify to themselves why they just
    spent that much on a camera.

    Oh, I forgot to ask. When shooting a series of images for an 18:13, 16:9, 10:8,
    7:5 or any other display ratio that you desire, in order to compose it properly
    in the camera and to make sure that you don't accidentally clip off an important
    part of your subject, is that menu option of yours handy to find so you can
    choose the right composition mask or grid for your viewfinder? Or do you just
    put duct-tape over parts of that amazingly noisy and image shaking mirror to
    accomplish this?

    You might want to find out where that option is on your DSLR, because even a
    single line running horizontally through your viewfinder would help immensely in
    leveling your photos. Your photos make me seasick from the streets, buildings,
    and hills all tilted at unnatural Richter-18 earthquake angles in every last
    one.

    Maybe you should just stick to macrophotography where references of vertical and
    horizontal aren't so apparent to the viewer. A shame that all your macro shots
    will be destroyed by having to use flash with so little DOF to work with when
    using available light in that camera of yours.

    Go ahead Annika, bring up more reasons people should go visit the CHDK pages so
    they can see that *NO* DSLR on earth can do what a CHDK P&S camera can do. Then
    they can ALL see why you were a fool for buying yours.

    LOL

    Bonus Laughter Section:

    Hey everyone! Do you want to hear what Annika's camera sounds like in burst shot
    mode and how fast it is after the buffer fills up after only ELEVEN shots? His
    camera then slowing down to less than 1/2 the rate of the cheapest P&S cameras
    ever made. Check this out. Annika's chosen line of cameras are well known as the
    noisiest ones ever made. They should offer ear-plugs with them as a standard
    accessory, for the photographer as well as everyone within 100 yards.

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS30D/Samples/Audio/eos30d-raw.mp3

    Did you wait for the even greater slowdown later in the recording? LOL

    That sample's volume wasn't amplified, that's how loud those cameras actually
    are from a normal distance.

    Here's an Pentax K10D recorded from the same distance using the same settings
    for noise-level comparison

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/PentaxK10D/Samples/Audio/k10djpegfine.mp3

    LOL!!
     
    AnnikaFolliesII, Oct 9, 2007
    #6
  7. That's the best part of all about CHDK, it doesn't touch or alter the original
    camera's firmware in any way. Think of it more like your news-reader software
    that you used to make your post. It is programmed to control and make use of
    your base operating system in your computer. CHDK only allows you to control
    what's already built into the camera's firmware, in much better ways. Or think
    of it like a plugin for your favorite editor. A plugin doesn't alter the
    function of the editor or even change its programming, it only enhances its
    capabilities. I doubt any image editor software author would find a problem with
    plugin authors. It only makes their editor more functional, not less. The same
    is true of CHDK.
     
    gary_wellington, Oct 9, 2007
    #7
  8. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    That's a start! Getting ver.req to work, at least that a sign of viability. Now
    if you can get a firmware update option to show on your menus by putting a *.fir
    file in the root folder of your memory card, it's more than likely possible. Use
    any of the pre-existing ones to test it, it won't harm the camera, you just want
    to see if you can get a firmware update menu option while in playback mode.
    That's the snag that S5 IS and some other Digic III models have run into. Canon
    changed either the filename recognition or firmware update method. It might be
    nothing more than just a change in the filename extension from *.fir to *.frm to
    get the camera to show the firmware update menu. Nobody will know until they
    stumble across it. That first kite-string across the canyon has to be there
    before you can run the cables across for the main bridge-building task. It's
    there, it's just a matter of finding it. Winter is coming up. I'm sure some
    bored S5 IS owner will press enough buttons during start-up and try enough
    different filenames during commercial breaks while watching movies. Or they'll
    just study all past firmware update procedures used on all cameras and find it
    that way. What they find can then be used on all the other Digic III cameras
    with a similar drawback. Just the challenge of finding it can drive someone,
    knowing it has to be there, even if they don't want it for CHDK.

    Too bad that Canon can't recognize the superiority and full potential of their
    cameras that allow CHDK on them and how much that could increase sales on all
    newer models. Instead, their "intelligent"? execs took the paranoid route. They
    could do with a good corporate psychologist and some anti-psychotic medication
    in their water-coolers for that problem. :) They wouldn't have lost so many
    sales on the S5 IS. Just another sign too that Canon doesn't care one bit about
    what their customer wants and needs. You have to buy what THEY decide you will
    need. A most juvenile and insecure PR department if I ever saw one. Typical
    insecure, childish, male-ego control-issues destroying their own futures. It
    hurts them on all fronts if they don't want to play along. Their loss.

    Again, good luck! Looking forward to seeing SX100 IS and S410 listed on the
    compatible cameras list.
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 9, 2007
    #8
  9. KevenGaston

    ~~NoMad~~ Guest

    I downloaded and installed a ps.fir file on both cameras and no joy. But,
    I'll keep tinkering.

    NM
     
    ~~NoMad~~, Oct 9, 2007
    #9
  10. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    More late breaking news. They just ported it to the G7 fw v1.00j too. (fully
    tested files not available yet, as far as I can tell)

    Fortunately (or unfortunately depending how you see things), the person who is
    the most active helping out is the one doing the Stereo-Data-Maker versions, so
    all new versions are coming from his builds. Not many people need nor want the
    stereo-features overhead, but he has provided some uBASIC commands that others
    have been hoping for. Nonetheless, at least CHDK is now available for these new
    firmware versions.

    http://rapidshare.com/files/61352814/SDM_MX3_G7_1.00G.zip.html
    http://rapidshare.com/files/61370846/SDM_MX3_G7_1.00I.zip.html


    For the G7 fw 1.00g without stereo-data-maker:
    http://www.zshare.net/download/4085028d72ea82/ (binaries, the ones you load in
    the camera)
    http://www.zshare.net/download/4085035b77256d/ (source)



    There are also some newer builds that have improved on the uBASIC commands as
    well as including the motion-detection routines:

    see: http://hem.passagen.se/fsmmal/chdk2.html

    There is also this interesting implementation of CHDK (for A710 IS only):
    http://ewavr.nm.ru/chdk/remote.htm with the source and compiled versions here
    http://ewavr.nm.ru/chdk/ . Most interesting. It gives CHDK the ability to use a
    USB cable as a remote shutter release with a small switch and a 3v button
    battery. An inexpensive remote-shutter release, something that everyone thought
    was impossible after Canon crippled their cameras by not providing this feature
    anymore.
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 9, 2007
    #10
  11. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    G7 firmware v1.00j CHDK available at:

    http://www.zshare.net/download/413542734fd1db/ G7 fw v1.00j binaries, the one
    you load on your SD card

    http://www.zshare.net/download/413543718c621b/ G7 fw v1.00j source, for those
    that compile their own or need the code and routines for further development

    (more news below ***)

    *** This has now been tested on other camera makes and models. It appears to
    work by those testing it. No doubt this feature will become a standard of CHDK.
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 10, 2007
    #11
  12. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    I found an interesting uni_batt05b.zip file at
    http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=20:22191-29

    It appears to be a battery indicator that can be added to many Digic I cameras.

    Can this provide any clues for a gateway into the S410? I think that's Digic I.

    Think of the worldwide round of applause you'd get if you found a way to make
    CHDK backward compatible to that many older cameras, giving them new life.


    From the english portion in the readme.txt file in the zip:

    http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=20:22191

    ***********************************
    Universal Battery Check by AlexG
    ***********************************

    The universal indicator of a charge of the battery.

    The program is intended for start on
    Cameras Canon PowerShot with Digic I.
    Now program identifies the following models:
    Pro1, G3, G5, G6, S45, S50, S60, S70, A40,
    A60, A70, A75, A80, A85, A95, A400, A510,
    A520, Ixus II, Ixus 400.
    Other models can be added.
    Cameras with Digic II and III, and also
    DSLR/EOS are not supported on technical
    reasons.

    For use of the program

    1. Create on flashcard a folder \DC97\MISC
    2. Copy in this folder uni_batt.exe
    And uni_batt.ini
    3. Include the camera in a mode of viewing
    4. Cause the menu of viewing, most
    By last item to appear "Battery info".
    If you use others programs,
    Have in view of, that in the menu of the camera
    There can not be more than four programs.
    5. Start the program by the button [SET].
    6. Exit from the program is carried out on
    pressing any button except for [PLAY].

    Email:
    Http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=20:11661
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 10, 2007
    #12
  13. KevenGaston

    KevenGaston Guest

    Here's an rar file of 3 different *.bin filename formats that A630's firmware
    will recognize (and the source code). These files will do nothing to your
    camera, but by putting them all in the root of the card you can tell if one of
    these filenames will work. When turned on it will lock up use of your camera,
    showing that it recognizes one of them. If it does then delete one or more to
    see which filename(s) it recognizes.

    http://mx3.ip-com.com.ua/chdk_exp/pre_blinker.rar

    They were using this to find ways to find the LED addresses to "blink" the
    firmware out of their cameras.

    Here's the post that I found it on:
    (note: this is in error, someone did try it, there was no firmware update menu
    in the G9, the same problem as S5 owners, even these authors are not following
    all the information that's being shared)
     
    KevenGaston, Oct 11, 2007
    #13
  14. HOLY SHIT!

    Check out this sound sample of a Canon EOS 40D! Recorded with the same setup and
    recording levels as the above camera samples.

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS40D/Samples/Audio/30sec.mp3

    And I thought the 30D was bad? Damn! They shouldn't just provide earplugs with
    this one, they need to sell hearing-aid insurance policies with them -- FOR THE
    NEIGHBORS! It even pins the audio recording levels! Check out the waveform in
    any audio editor, its amplitude is clipped! Moving the microphone into another
    building when firing off this piece of shit camera probably wouldn't have even
    helped.

    To top it off the burst rate slows down to the 2.3 fps speed of a $200 P&S
    camera after the internal buffer is full. Yeah, that's worth all that $1300 for
    JUST the camera body. LOL!!

    No wonder Annika doesn't understand anything that's ever told to him, his
    camera's have made him DEAF. Hey Annika? How often do the neighbors call up the
    county assessor's office to report you for construction violations without a
    permit every time you fire up that jackhammer?

    LOL!

    With that much noise and vibration how much do you want to bet that camera slaps
    itself to death before it reaches even15,000 shots. That would be an EASY bet.

    No wonder Annika loves the 40D so much, he doesn't have to get attention on-line
    anymore, the WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD will know when he's around taking photos! The
    PERFECT camera for an attention whore like him! LOL

    Hey Annika? Get a Gatling gun next time for even more attention, it might even
    be louder than your piece of shit 40D -- MIGHT be louder.

    IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA FOR EVERYONE TO TYPE IN ALL UPPER-CASE IN THE FUTURE
    WHEN REPLYING TO ANNIKA, IT MIGHT BE THE ONLY WAY HE CAN READ IT, IT'S SHOUTING
    LOUD ENOUGH VISUALLY FOR IT TO GET THROUGH THE DEAFNESS HIS CAMERA CAUSED.

    HEY ANNIKA, DID YOU GET ANY GOOD PICTURES LATELY? NO? STILL THE SAME OLD SHIT AS
    USUAL EH? EH?!?

    HEY! CAN'T YOU HEAR ANYTHING ANYMORE?

    AT LEAST ALL YOUR SUBJECT HEADERS IN YOUR POSTS FINALLY MAKE SENSE, ALL BEING
    TYPED IN UPPER-CASE AND ALL. WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND WHY NOW. AND HERE WE THOUGHT
    IT WAS FROM LOUD ROCK CONCERTS.

    LOL!!
     
    AnnikaFolliesII, Oct 16, 2007
    #14
  15. HOLY SHIT!

    Check out this sound sample of a Canon EOS 40D! Recorded with the same setup and
    recording levels as the above camera samples.

    http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS40D/Samples/Audio/30sec.mp3

    And I thought the 30D was bad? Damn! They shouldn't just provide earplugs with
    this one, they need to sell hearing-aid insurance policies with them -- FOR THE
    NEIGHBORS! It even pins the audio recording levels! Check out the waveform in
    any audio editor, its amplitude is clipped! Moving the microphone into another
    building when firing off this piece of shit camera probably wouldn't have even
    helped.

    To top it off the burst rate slows down to the 2.3 fps speed of a $200 P&S
    camera after the internal buffer is full. Yeah, that's worth all that $1300 for
    JUST the camera body. LOL!!

    No wonder Annika doesn't understand anything that's ever told to him, his
    camera's have made him DEAF. Hey Annika? How often do the neighbors call up the
    county assessor's office to report you for construction violations without a
    permit every time you fire up that jackhammer?

    LOL!

    With that much noise and vibration how much do you want to bet that camera slaps
    itself to death before it reaches even15,000 shots. That would be an EASY bet.

    No wonder Annika loves the 40D so much, he doesn't have to get attention on-line
    anymore, the WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD will know when he's around taking photos! The
    PERFECT camera for an attention whore like him! LOL

    Hey Annika? Get a Gatling gun next time for even more attention, it might even
    be louder than your piece of shit 40D -- MIGHT be louder.

    IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA FOR EVERYONE TO TYPE IN ALL UPPER-CASE IN THE FUTURE
    WHEN REPLYING TO ANNIKA, IT MIGHT BE THE ONLY WAY HE CAN READ IT, IT'S SHOUTING
    LOUD ENOUGH VISUALLY FOR IT TO GET THROUGH THE DEAFNESS HIS CAMERA CAUSED.

    HEY ANNIKA, DID YOU GET ANY GOOD PICTURES LATELY? NO? STILL THE SAME OLD SHIT AS
    USUAL EH? EH?!?

    HEY! CAN'T YOU HEAR ANYTHING ANYMORE?

    AT LEAST ALL YOUR SUBJECT HEADERS IN YOUR POSTS FINALLY MAKE SENSE, ALL BEING
    TYPED IN UPPER-CASE AND ALL. WE CAN ALL UNDERSTAND WHY NOW. AND HERE WE THOUGHT
    IT WAS FROM LOUD ROCK CONCERTS.

    LOL!!
     
    AnnikaFolliesII, Oct 16, 2007
    #15
  16. Sour grapes? Is that how you justify your blatant stupidity? There's a reason
    that the majority of people buy P&S cameras so they can turn off all sounds, and
    choose P&S cameras with ultrasonic motors in them so even focusing and zooming
    are absolutely silent. Why do you think that utlrasonic motors were even
    designed for use in cameras? They were designed by EXPERTS that realize what is
    needed in a decent camera. Ask any demanding wildlife photographer about the
    necessity of that. But then you don't know much about the varied aspects of
    photography anyway. You probably only use your camera to photograph your 8 dozen
    cats. It's no wonder that you make your absurd comments so often.
     
    ReplyingToIdiot, Oct 17, 2007
    #16
  17. KevenGaston

    merl cove Guest

    But none of this caddy information will ever make any DSLR quiet enough for me
    to ever want to own one. Why would anyone pay that much money for a
    self-destructive noisemaker? Except for use during a New-Years party. Or to
    scare away annoying cats.

    It's nice to see DPReview posting those sound clips for all the DSLRs now. That
    alone is going to show everyone why buying a silent P&S camera is always the
    better choice. They don't post sound-clips for P&S cameras because there's no
    sound to record. Unless you intentionally turn on the sound effects--played back
    through the small speaker for reviewing audio and video recordings. What's that?
    Audio and video recording? You mean cameras can do that? Yes, if they're not an
    ear-drum-shattering DSLR. Some of them with ultrasonic motors are even quiet
    enough to use zoom for videos while recording in CD quality stereo. You learn
    these things after you've stopped listening to the foolish advice of those that
    can only push DSLRs on everyone.



    BTW & FYI: a .22 is a much more effective noisemaker for cats. You only have to
    scare them "away" once. No repeat customers. For the international people that
    don't know. Domesticated-cats that were allowed to roam by irresponsible and
    foolish pet-owners have now become a serious infestation in many parts of N.
    America. Destroying the native food-chain in many fragile habitats and putting
    further stress on already endangered native species. Cats hunt and kill just for
    the sport of it, destroying all the food sources for native species.
    Game-Hunters in most areas of N. America now use the domestic cat for readily
    available target practice. Keep your cat indoors where it belongs or don't keep
    it. It's that simple. Any cat-lover is now looked on with nothing but contempt
    for all the irreparable damage that they have caused and continue to create in
    all environments in which their "cute" cats are found.
     
    merl cove, Oct 19, 2007
    #17
  18. so why do you NEED a quiet camera, unless your going for the "Up Skirts"
    type shots??
     
    Atheist Chaplain, Oct 19, 2007
    #18
  19. KevenGaston

    carltonarden Guest

    That is not a "law" in most state, nor in any states. The only time that an
    ordinance like that is used is in urban areas where shooting guns is frowned on.
    Then too it's only used as a reason to not shoot guns near inhabited buildings
    (which is against the law). In fact in most states if you find your cat with a
    bullet hole through its deserving head, environment protection agencies will
    tell you, "Sorry to hear about your cat, keep it indoors next time." Teach your
    ignorant children to be responsible pet owners and maybe next time they won't
    have Dear Mr. Whiskers splattered all over the woods because of your own
    irresponsibility, ignorance, and stupidity that's destroying the planet.
     
    carltonarden, Oct 19, 2007
    #19
  20. KevenGaston

    Herkimer Guest

    Do you always like to advertise your own thinking processes and priorities in
    life like this? It's always interesting to see the puerile insults of others.
    They're always the first to display what's always on their own minds,
    advertising their own perversions and desperations to the world. Nobody has to
    even ask them what's on their minds because they happily and stupidly expose
    themselves just as you did, and no doubt always do.
     
    Herkimer, Oct 19, 2007
    #20
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