Color profile seems good, but this file acts strange

Discussion in 'Photoshop' started by Huss, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. Huss

    Huss Guest

    Maybe someone here can explain this for me: Following my photo lab's
    advice I set up my monitor with their color profile. All of my prints
    through them look exactly as expected, except for one. They gave me a
    print and the file from which it was made to check skin tone and
    contrast level (I can email the 405KB file to anyone on request). The
    skin tones match perfectly...the contrast levels seem to match
    perfectly, but the red border (something they told me not to pay much
    attention to) does not match at all. On their print it is burgundy,
    while on my monitor it is a very bright red. Like I said, all of my
    prints look EXACTLY as expected, so this isn't really a problem, just
    something I would like to understand. Any thoughts?

    Huss
     
    Huss, Apr 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. Huss

    Flycaster Guest

    This is difficult to answer without having all the details, but if your
    prints match what you see on the screen, then I wouldn't sweat it. Chances
    are the color is out of gamut for their device (printer), so that is ONE
    reason why it might not match. There are others, to be sure, but as long as
    you are happy with the overall match, I'd leave it alone.

    However, they *should* be able to explain the discrepancy. Ask 'em.
     
    Flycaster, Apr 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Huss

    Huss Guest

    Well, the person that knows the most about it is on vacation, but one of
    them let me see the file on their monitor and it matched the print
    perfectly so I'm guessing the problem is on my end. Again, I'm not
    overly woried about it...just curious. The girl that I talked to
    couldn't explain why the file behaved the way it does, but the manager
    should be back next week.

    The printer they use is a Noritsu QSS-3011. They make Type C prints on
    Fuji Crystal Archive paper.
     
    Huss, Apr 10, 2004
    #3
  4. Huss

    WharfRat Guest

     
    WharfRat, Apr 10, 2004
    #4
  5. Huss

    Huss Guest

    I'm sorry, I think I may have worded that incorrectly. I'm a little new
    to this so please forgive me. They told me to try using an sRGB color
    space and use the file and print they gave me to adjust my monitor for
    the skin tones and contrast level. The other colors on the test print
    do not match very well.

    Huss
     
    Huss, Apr 10, 2004
    #5
  6. The problem is that you cannot 'calibrate' a monitor using a print,
    despite of what your lab is suggesting. Monitors can show colors that a
    print cannot show and vice versa. You should calibrate your monitor in
    the usual way. If you do not have true calibration software/hardware,
    then use Adobe Gamma.
     
    Johan W. Elzenga, Apr 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Huss

    Huss Guest

    OK, I guess I understand this topic a whole lot less than I thought.
    What is the point of using a particular color profile (in this case sRGB
    IEC61966-2.1) if it doesn't make the colors on screen appear accurately
    when compared to another monitor? I'm not saying they have to be exact
    for my purposes, but this is a major difference in color that I'm
    experiencing.

    Huss
     
    Huss, Apr 10, 2004
    #7
  8. The image should be tagged with sRGB IEC61966-2.1, because that is the
    best color space for your lab. In other words: if the image is sRGB, you
    will get the best result from the lab (meaning a result that is as close
    as possible to what you see on your own screen).

    sRGB is not your monitor profile, however. You should calibrate your
    monitor (using AdobeGamma or something better) and use that profile for
    your monitor. Your computer will then make sure that the sRGB colors of
    your image will be shown as accurately as possible on your monitor.
     
    Johan W. Elzenga, Apr 10, 2004
    #8
  9. Huss

    Huss Guest

    Thanks for taking the time to reply to me John, I really do appreciate
    your help in understanding this topic. I'm sorry if I'm slow at
    understanding these things, but I really want to understand them well.
    I've tried the PS help file, but I must be missing something.

    Yes, I've made a monitor profile and realize that it is unique to my
    hardware. Yes, the image is tagged with a profile that I use when I
    open the image. I guess I just don't understand how two monitors that
    are calibrated (I realize that mine is probably not as acurate as it
    could be..the lab's uses a built in colorimiter to profile their monitor
    at least once a month) would give such different results. They should
    at least be close. The difference is significant...fire engine red on
    my monitor as opposed to deep burgundy on the lab's monitor and print.
    Perhaps it is a problem with just the one color since it seems to be the
    only one off? The skin tone and the contrast level on the
    print/file/monitor(s) is very accurate. Anyway, it really isn't a
    problem at this point, just something that I would like to understand.
    I'll keep researching. Maybe I can find a good book that would help.

    L. Huss
     
    Huss, Apr 10, 2004
    #9
  10. Huss

    Mike G. Guest

    Try this site:

    http://www.computer-darkroom.com/

    Select the 'Enter' link, then click the 'Feature Articless' drop-down.
    Some good information there. Also, check out the rest of the site.
    I've learned so much there.

    Here's another one to try. Although it's written by a competitor to
    Adobe Photoshop, it's nonetheless one of the best white papers I've seen
    on the subject of color management.

    Scroll down the page and select the 'Color Management.pdf' file.

    http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/downloads/tutorials_content.html

    If you search Google Groups for 'Color Management' and 'Colour
    Management', you will find an amazing amount of information. It's not
    uncommon to get more confused before you start to see it more clearly.
    I'm just starting to emerge from the totally confused state, and I've
    been reading stuff for months. Hope this helps.

    Mike

    Maybe I can find a good book that would help.
     
    Mike G., Apr 10, 2004
    #10
  11. By telling Photoshop that the lab uses sRGB, you enable it to render the image
    properly on your monitor, which, in turn, has it's own profile.

    The sRGB-profiled image is converted into monitor profile in order to be
    dispayed. It's much like translating between languages: photo lab speaks sRGB,
    and monitor speaks "MonitorProfile"; Photoshop translates sRGB into
    "MonitorProfile".

    Also, every monitor's profile is valid for that particular device (and maybe a
    few others), and your aim in this case is not to match your output to other
    monitors but to a specified lab's printer (which is supposedly callibrated to
    "speak" the sRGB "language").
     
    Branko Vukelic, Apr 11, 2004
    #11
  12. Huss

    Flycaster Guest

    Oh boy. While I agree with you 100%, this suggestion usually gets the
    riff-raff rolling. Pretty soon we'll end up with someone suggesting that
    the "solution" is to turn off color management, and simply "profile" the
    monitor to a test print. It never fails...
     
    Flycaster, Apr 11, 2004
    #12
  13. Huss

    WharfRat Guest

    --
    You kind of said it correctly.
    It is just that,
    you do not set up your monitor to match some output.
    You profile calibrate and profile your monitor to work properly.
    then you capture files and get them into a good working space.
    Then you convery your files to the profile you aill be outputting to.
    -
    Imagine if you set up your entire system to put out perfect results for that
    one printing device.
    Then - you would be no idea how to prepare the file to print to any other
    output device.

    There are some pretty good canned profiles for those printers.
    Many are available, on line, for specific locations as well.
    They seem to be well documented and tracked machines.

    MSD
     
    WharfRat, Apr 11, 2004
    #13
  14. Huss

    Huss Guest

    Really? Do you have any idea where I could find a profile for a Noritsu
    QSS-3011? I couldn't find anything on the Noritsu website.
     
    Huss, Apr 11, 2004
    #14
  15. Huss

    WharfRat Guest

    WharfRat, Apr 11, 2004
    #15
  16. Huss

    1 Guest

    Are we to understand that the red is bright red even when soft
    proofing? Make sure that you check the gamut warning as well. It
    could just be beyond the printers gamut range.

    To set up "soft proof" for your prints, (in photoshop) click on
    "view"->"Proof Steup"->"Custom".

    In the "Profile" drop down box, find the appropriate output
    (printer/paper) profile. DONT check the "preserve color numbers box,
    leave the Intent box on perceptual, and I like to check the "paper
    white" box. (which may not always be a good idea, unless you know
    your monitor is calibrated right and the rooms abient lighting is well
    controled.) Click save, and your done. Now to switch soft proofing
    on and off, hold CNTRL and press Y. All that needs to be done now
    to tell if that red is out of gamut, is make sure that soft proofing
    is on, then click "View"->"Gamut Warning". If the red turns grey (the
    default clolor) then it's out of gamut, and you may want to shift the
    color a little, or desaturate it a little.
     
    1, Oct 1, 2004
    #16
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