cross processing C41 in E6 tips please ?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by John, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Hi there

    I'm looking for any tips or experiences with C41 film cross processed in E6,
    ie so the result is a transparency film. I'm looking for exaggerated colours
    (ie highly saturated and possibly contrasty) or any effects or colour shifts
    which might be useful. Can you please specify the ISO used for the film and
    the e6 processing details ie Normal or pushed "x" number of stops.

    Has anyone found any websites with test results re the above?

    Thanks in advance.

    Regards
    JJ
     
    John, Sep 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. Take a look at
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis184/cis184.j
    html
     
    Tony Parkinson, Sep 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. John

    Lourens Smak Guest

    Than the other way round (E6-film in C41 chemicals) will be more what
    you are looking for. You can then also adjust the color-cast a bit when
    printing. (you usually get a double cast that can not be filtered out
    completely, i.e. both blue and yellow)
    The way you want it, your slides will always keep a
    orange/brownish/pinkish tone because of the mask layer. This may, or may
    not, be nice-looking.
    Just try it and see if it's useful... start off with a normally exposed
    roll and adjust if necessary. (bracket exposures to learn quicker) If
    you don't like the colors start again with a different brand of film.

    Lourens
     
    Lourens Smak, Sep 18, 2003
    #3
  4. Don't do this. The neg films have an orange mask that will mess up
    your intentions. They make E-6 slide films. Use them!
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 18, 2003
    #4
  5. John

    Alan Browne Guest

    Missed the whole "art" thing didya?
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 18, 2003
    #5
  6. John

    Gordon Moat Guest

    I have done quite a few of these experiments.
    Contrast changes sometimes. Colours are often more muted, though some false
    colours are possible. Colours often shift towards blue, though using an orange
    type of filter can compensate.
    In general, I have the lab cross process the film in E6 at the rated ISO. When
    I am shooting the film, I have found that two more stops of exposure are
    needed. To leave the exposure compensation dial untouched, if I have a 400 ISO
    C-41 film (for example), I would set the ISO to 100, and the lab would process
    this as a 400 ISO E6 film.

    The reason I do not alter the ISO at the processing level, is that the lab may
    charge a push or pull fee in addition to the regular processing charge. My
    suggestion is to check with a lab first, and see how they want to handle the
    film. Some places do not like doing this, since it does contaminate the
    chemicals a little.
    No web sites that I know about, though there are a few samples on my web site.
    Those are mostly from Portra 400BW, since I wanted B/W slides, though they have
    a slight green cast to them.

    Just experiment, and see what happens. You may want to try a roll unmounted at
    processing, and check the sprocket area and registers to see how the exposures
    went. Enjoy.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Sep 18, 2003
    #6
  7. Missed the whole 'don't fart around with film thing' did ya?

    There must be 200 E-6 films. Why, oh why, put C41 neg film through
    E-6? Of all the lame-brained idiotic things to do.....
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 19, 2003
    #7
  8. It will not look good. Don't bother. Use E-6 film.
    You'll just get pukey orange colours.
    They won't be useful. They'll be horrid.
    Don't do it. Don't lick a cold flagpole in zero degree weather in winter either.
    Yeah. Here. Don't do it.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 19, 2003
    #8
  9. John

    Alan Browne Guest


    Hey Wonderdog, look up "cross processing" which has been practised in
    photography as an experimental, usually artistic leaning approach to
    developing film since the second dev. process appeared.

    I've never x-processed, but I don't go around telling other people what
    to do with their film. If they want to experiment, power to them.

    Stop being dense and dogmatic.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 19, 2003
    #9
  10. John

    Alan Browne Guest

    Michael,

    When a poster asks a question about wanting to try an offbeat technique,
    you can:
    -answer with knowledge based on study or experience
    -answer "go to such-and-such a website"
    -ask your own questions...

    But when you "dissapprove" of something somebody wants to try for their
    own reasons of which you have no knowledge, it would behoove you well to
    simply shut up.

    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 19, 2003
    #10
  11. Have you ever considered the possibility that running C41 films
    through E-6 contaminates the E-6 lines? If I owned a lab, I'd refuse
    to do it.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 19, 2003
    #11
  12. John

    John Guest

    Yes it does to a small degree but Kodak says it OK within defined limits so
    the labs are happy to do it, even if you are not.

    Thanks for the entertainment, if not for any constructive feedback.
    Regards
    JJ
     
    John, Sep 19, 2003
    #12
  13. John

    John Guest

    Thanks Gordon

    I've already shot lots of film in various combinations of exposure and
    processing. I'm just fishing for any interesting tips people may have come
    across. I got a tip a few months ago about Reala exposed around Normal and
    pushed 3 stops in E6, this is pretty interesting with fairly strong contrast
    and strong blue/peach tones. I don't think I can afford to buy every type of
    film and test it in every combination and permutation. Even if I did, I'm
    sure my "favourite" would be discontinued just as I stumbled across it...
    Regards
    JJ
     
    John, Sep 19, 2003
    #13
  14. John

    Nikkorguy Guest

    Have you ever considered the possibility that running C41 films
    It doesn't. I used to work at a professional lab on the E6 line. It's a fairly
    common practice. There is a significant loss of film speed, so you will
    probably want to start by overexposing by 1-2 stops and bracketing around
    there.

    Frank
     
    Nikkorguy, Sep 19, 2003
    #14
  15. John

    Gordon Moat Guest

    So far, the only really objectionable result I have found from cross processing
    was for Kodak Portra 160VC. It is so blue, everything looks like the land of
    Smurfs. However, you might want to try it.

    The Kodak Portra 400NC, and Fuji NPH gave much nicer results. Tungsten film
    under daylight conditions is another strange thing to try, and can sometimes
    give a more usable blue result. The recent Nuala ads were photographed that
    way, giving a slightly blue, muted, dream like quality to the images.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Sep 19, 2003
    #15
  16. Actually, running E-6film through C41 offers more potential.

    What kills me is that people who would never have thought of this
    themselves are being taught to do it in classes! Then they are taught
    the word 'brick' as in "I want to buy a brick to T-Max film please",
    and they think they are just so cool!

    Save us, oh save us, please, from college photo instructors!
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 19, 2003
    #16
  17. John, cross processing looks great when you do it properly.
    Transparency film x-processed in c-41 will generally yield exaggerated
    colors and hightened contrast. It's perfect for fashion or music
    covers. With neg film x-pro'd in E6, you will typically get the
    yellow/orange cast of the emulsion (most often in the highlight areas
    and a blue cast to the shadows.

    To cross process slide film expose at the regular iso speed (or one
    stop slower) then process in c-41 chemisty using regular times. To
    cross process neg film, overexpose by 1-2 stops adn push process in
    E-6 chemisty 1-1 1/2 stops. THESE ARE ONLY RECOMMENDATIONS. Bracket
    like crazy.
    I had a web page set up detailing the whole deal but the page was
    accidentally overwriten during the sites last update. I'll try to get
    it back online in the coming weeks. Good luck with it, it's a blast.

    For other fun results, cross process tungsten film and black and white
    slide film. You can get a wide variety of results that have their
    purposes.

    Thomas E. Witte

    www.mindspring.com/~photoj
    www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=42
     
    Thomas E. Witte, Sep 19, 2003
    #17
  18. Thomas E. Witte, Sep 19, 2003
    #18
  19. Thomas E. Witte, Sep 20, 2003
    #19
  20. John

    John Guest

    Thanks Gordon
    I've tried the 160 VC, and found it as you've described. I haven't played
    with any 400 speed films simply because I need to use 35mm stock as well as
    120 and 400 speed would be grainier than I like. What the heck, I'll try
    them too.

    Regards
    JJ
     
    John, Sep 20, 2003
    #20
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