Current view on drum scanners?

Discussion in 'Scanners' started by Lawrence Akutagawa, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. You mean you use a scanner in your darkroom? How quaint!
     
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Nov 11, 2008
    #1
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  2. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Neil Gould Guest

    For some reason, you leave out the dedicated film scanners with CCDs, which
    fill the gap between these two. Flatbeds are the low-end of these three
    options.

    Neil
     
    Neil Gould, Nov 11, 2008
    #2
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  3. So explain, please, the relevance of scanners in this newsgroup
    "rec.photo.darkroom." After all, a darkroom is a darkroom is a darkroom is
    a darkroom...is it not?
     
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Nov 11, 2008
    #3
  4. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest

    What's the consensus, as we close 2008?
    Anyone still using drum scanners with PMT tubes?
    Any particular reason, from a photographer's point of view, why this
    technology is still pertinent, or do most users fee that fletbed scanners
    have come to where they can replace this older technology?

    Interested to hear views from anyone still using this. . .

    Thanks
     
    Airbus, Nov 11, 2008
    #4
  5. Well, I don't go around making up new definitions for existing words. As
    far as "darkroom" is concerned, here are references/definitions on the net.
    Care to cite references supporting relevance of scanners in this newsgroup?
    Exactly what is your logic and thinking such as to be consistent with these
    definitions?

    from dictionary.com
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=darkroom
    noun Photography.
    a room in which film or the like is made, handled, or developed and from
    which the actinic rays of light are excluded

    from Merriam-Webster dictionary
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/darkroom
    : a room with no light or with a safelight for developing light-sensitive
    photographic materials

    from MSN Encarta dictionary
    http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/darkroom.html
    room for developing photographs: a room from which natural light is excluded
    so that light-sensitive photographic materials can be safely handled and
    photographs can be developed

    from American Heritage dictionary
    http://www.bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/ahdsearch?search_type=enty&query=darkroom&db=ahd
    ....A room in which photographic materials are processed, either in complete
    darkness or with a safelight....

    from PhotoNotes.org dictionary of film and digital photography
    http://photonotes.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?input=darkroom&which=a
    Light-tight room used for photographic work and illuminated by safelights.
    Small facilities are usually divided into two halves - a wet side for
    handling chemicals and rinsing baths and a dry side for enlargements. Larger
    facilities usually involve separate rooms for enlarging and the chemical
    baths.
     
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Nov 11, 2008
    #5
  6. Jean-David Beyer, Nov 11, 2008
    #6
  7. Some inventions are really more important than others. The insignificant
    ones disappear in a few years. Others are more long-lasting.

    The photomultiplier tube is one of the important ones (that have use in
    other situations than scanners). But something as sensitive as a PMT with a
    low signal-to-noise ratio is really something.

    An older one, analogue photography (1839, officially, but at least a decade
    older), has had even more impact.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Nov 11, 2008
    #7
  8. hmmm...so this is your logic and thinking such as to be consistent with the
    cited darkroom definitions? No wonder you posted here!
     
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Nov 11, 2008
    #8
  9. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Neil Gould Guest

    A lot depends on what kind of result you want or need. Regarding such things
    as resolution, color integrity, and dynamic range, a typical CCD film
    scanner outperforms the best flatbeds. PMT drum scanners outperform the best
    dedicated CCD film scanners, but not everyone requires these that of
    performance, and many are satisfied with the results from their flatbeds.
    For example, if your intention is to use the scans on the web, a flatbed is
    the best choice, but if your intention is to get the maximum enlargement
    possible, the PMT or dedicated film scanners are the best choices.

    Another consideration is the film size. For 35mm, the CCD film scanners are
    far better than flatbeds, but for 4x5, your choices are much more limited,
    and for 8x10, it's either flatbed or PMT, AFAIK.

    For many, the difference in quality between a dedicated CCD film scanner and
    a PMT drum scanner is not great enough to warrant the extra cost and hassle.
    That doesn't mean that there isn't a difference, but it does reduce the size
    of the market for PMT scanners.
     
    Neil Gould, Nov 11, 2008
    #9
  10. If I might step into this little brouhaha for just a second, I think you
    (Lawrence) are being a bit too picky here. Now, I'm about as "strict
    constructionist" as you can get regarding Usenet group topics: I'm
    currently involved in an effort to rid r.p.e.35mm of the off-topic
    digital SLR posters there. (Wish me luck on that one.)

    But I think in this case this subject (film scanners) falls well within
    the purview of darkroom practice: many folks who shoot film use a
    "hybrid" process of developing film, then scanning and printing in the
    digital realm. So I believe it's not so far off topic as you make it sound.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Nov 11, 2008
    #10
  11. Reminds me of this one:

    The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great
    moral crises maintain their neutrality.

    - Dante Alighieri
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Nov 11, 2008
    #11
  12. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest

    My scanners don't actually go *in* the darkroom, as I'm afraid some
    well-meaning nit will spray water all over them! Mine go in the repro room,
    which joins the darkroom, just before the mounting and framing shop, and
    adjoining the projection room and reception areas.
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #12
  13. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest


    Well here you can correct me as I thought these were essentially the same as
    flatbed scanners (also CCD) with the addition of plastic trays and holders to
    make it easier to position the film on the flatbed, but in performance
    besically the same thing.

    The question becomes to what extent software management can overcome the
    intrinsic drawbacks of CCD arrays (noise, resolution which "is what it is")
    to the point of rivaling the very old, analog tube with intrinsically
    superior sensitivity characteristics, but which is a pain in the but to
    manage. . . Are we there yet?

    Ancillary question, not without importance - is anyone still making PMT-based
    drum scanners? Anyone know what PMT devices they are using?
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #13
  14. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest


    Can be anything from a laundry room to a flower garden, depending on your
    means and interpretation. I'm seeking meaningful information from serious
    contributors. Care to join?
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #14
  15. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest


    Thanks for that.
    Aztek was always considered a sort of "entry level" player, but the fact that
    ICT is still a player and still offering new products is telling.

    Amazing that this 1930's technology strill holds its own, and indeed offers the
    "high end" solution in today's digital world. . .
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #15
  16. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest


    You don't need to - You've already invented water spray for home darkrooms!
    A true visionary!
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #16
  17. IMHO it's a waste of time. As long as you try someone will try to
    prevent you from succeeding. I think at this point you might be better
    off starting a group called "rec.photography.35mmfilm" or
    just "rec.photography.film". With the number of 35mm, APS, medium and
    large format posts, that are not SPAM or digital, it could cover all
    of them and still be a low volume group. :-(

    Geoff.
     
    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Nov 12, 2008
    #17
  18. Lawrence Akutagawa

    Airbus Guest


    Honestly, I try to post to appropriate groups where possible, but
    "rec.photo.drum-scanners" was not on my list. I knew in posting to a different
    but related group I ran the risk of encountering a self-appointed enforcer on
    a mission from above, but I thought I may also encounter informed individuals
    with an interest on the topic. Both turned out to be true.

    The "wrong group" enforcers can be constructive ("that's a bit off-topic here,
    but you might try over in xxxxx where there was a thread recently") or just
    pointlessly picky. I'd have done better to ignore those posts, but they were
    just irksome enough to get my attention. Thanks to the helpful responses.
     
    Airbus, Nov 12, 2008
    #18
  19. I thought it went like this:

    In Heaven...
    the French are the cooks
    the Germans are the engineers
    the British are the police
    the Swiss are the managers
    the Italians are the lovers

    In Hell...
    the British are the cooks
    the French are the managers
    the Italians are the engineers
    the Germans are the police
    the Swiss are the lovers
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Nov 12, 2008
    #19
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