Currently the best recordable media?

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Doc, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. Doc

    Doc Guest

    I realize this has probably been gone over before but seems like things can
    change.

    Doing a multiple DVD project, looking for thoughts on what, if anything, is
    considered the most reliable, least likely to delaminate or otherwise self
    destruct over time burnable DVD brand on the market. Actually, CD's too.

    Or is it still a complete crapshoot due to ever changing
    they-bought-whatever-materials-were-cheapest-this-week-from-god-knows-who
    manufacturing?

    Or is the whole consumer burnable media concept iffy and the only way to
    ensure longevity is to pay out the nose and send yours off to someplance to
    have pressed copies made?

    Thanks
     
    Doc, Mar 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. Doc

    Axel VK Guest

    A newbie called 'Bob' will very shortly tell you that TY is the best because
    CD Freaks say so.
    He fails to grasp the concept of compatability.
     
    Axel VK, Mar 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. Doc

    Mike Rivers Guest

    It's not that haphazard, but it's still a crapshoot. Your recordable
    DVDs are highly unlikely to fail in the length of time that it takes to
    complete the project (unless it's one of THOSE projects that never get
    finished), and once the project is completed, it's an archive project
    and needs to be treated as one if you want to preserve it indefinitely.


    Whatever the conventional wisdom is, you do it. If the current thought
    is that the disks will last five years if stored properly, then in five
    years, you re-record them on whatever's thought of as the best
    available then, and then you do it again and again. It's not expensive,
    it's just something that you have to keep up with.

    On the other hand, will anyone but you really care after a few years?
    We tend to keep a lot more than we'll ever use these days, just because
    we can.
     
    Mike Rivers, Mar 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Doc

    Doc Guest

    What brand(s) do you use?
    ?

    I can only guess that by "whatever time it takes to complete the
    project" you thought I meant the DVD's were for showing at a specific
    event or presentation.

    In this case, I'm archiving theme park video. Yes, video tape seems to
    be fairly stable and long-lived but what I have is shot somewhat
    piecemeal and out of sequence. I'm arranging it on DVD for thematic
    content and watchability, also to share with relatives.

    As for "will anyone care in 5 years". Quite possibly, since in even in
    the last 5 years or so since I shot the first of it, a lot of what I
    have doesn't exist any more having been axed due to "downsizing" or
    replaced with other attractions.
     
    Doc, Mar 16, 2006
    #4
  5. "Doc" wrote ...
    Having burned many hundreds of both CD and DVD discs, I
    think these people have it spot on. I have been using their
    advice and I am very happy with Taiyo-Yuden.

    Note that is both a matter of choosing a good brand, AND
    buying it from a reliable vendor who won't substitute some
    inferior brand.

    Digital FAQ Website http://www.digitalfaq.com

    Blank Media & Quality FAQ
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

    Where to Buy Good Media
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/buyerguides/buymedia.htm
     
    Richard Crowley, Mar 16, 2006
    #5
  6. Doc

    unclejr Guest

    I've never tried Taiyo Yudens, so I will defer to the others
    (especially, "Bob") to comment on its relative merits.

    I have been using Ritek, since the G03 days when I could burn 2x on my
    Pioneer A04 with 1.31 hacked firmware. That was quite a luxury back
    then. My, times have changed!

    Anyway, I continue to use Ritek/RiData G05s as my main archival media
    and have had no problems with them. None. As usual, YMMV.

    -Junior
     
    unclejr, Mar 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Doc

    Marv Soloff Guest

    Well, after 1300 transfers into my project, I switched to TY about three
    months ago. No coasters. Buy 'em in bulk from rima.

    Regards,

    Marv
     
    Marv Soloff, Mar 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Doc

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Anybody who tells you is lying.
    Yes, but in addition, nobody really knows which will last the longest. In
    the case of CD-Rs, there are a bunch of different dyes available. Every
    manufacturer says their dye formulation is longest-lived.

    In the case of CD-Rs, in general the dyes that do better in accelerated
    aging tests also have higher initial error rates because they are more
    difficult to write. So for some applications, that might be a bad thing.

    On the other hand, these are the same accelerated aging tests that told
    us in the 1970s that the new urethane binder mastering tapes would last
    longer than the older red oxide types. This turned out to be totally wrong.
    If accelerated aging really works, why can't they make a good Scotch in
    six months? If you want something that lasts, use a format that is proven
    to last, if you can. In the case of audio, that means a pressed CD or a
    1/4" tape. In the case of video, that could even mean a kine. The second
    thing you can do is to record on multiple formats, to improve your odds.
    And the third thing you can do is periodically go through the archive checking
    things, and dupe digital recordings with increasing error rates before they
    go through the roof.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Mar 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Doc

    philicorda Guest

    Yes, it's a total crapshoot.
    I now make two copies on two different brands.
    Then, the chances of getting a bad batch from one particular company are
    minimised, and at least one copy will still work in ten years time.
    It's the only way to be sure. Making two copies on the same brand is a
    waste of time. Use different burners as well if you can, and verify a few
    every new spindle of media.

    The best way to pick media is to go for a respectable brand name. If there
    are a few, count the amount of claims for 100 year diamond titanium wombat
    skin protection or whatever and multiply by the CMYK colour values of the
    packaging. Highest score wins.
    No, just archive onto two brands and then do it again when the next big
    storage medium appears in a few years. Keep the old ones at a different
    location as last chance backups.
    Maintaining backups is a continuous process, not a single event.
     
    philicorda, Mar 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Doc

    Mike Rivers Guest

    I don't have a DVD writer, but I use Taiyo Yuden silver CDs because
    they work in my TASCAM CD recorder and if I use the same brand all
    around, I'll always have some when I need them. Many office supply
    store CDs with famous brand names (HP for instance) don't work in that
    recorder, though I've never had a problem with them not working in a
    computer. I don't have any really old ones (yet) so I don't know how
    long they work for. But then I don't really care. I have accepted any
    meda that has anything to do with a computer as being temporary.
    No, I know that there are some projects that are never finished and
    that you might want to dredge up something that you did ten years ago
    to put into the current version of the unfiinished project. I wouldn't
    guarantee that it would be there unless you've taken the trouble to
    keep it as a true archive - and few of us do that until the project is
    finished and has either been presented, published (which makes
    retention someone else's problem, unless you want to modify it) or
    you've given up on it.
    And then what? Do you want your grandchildren to share it with their
    grandchildren after you're gone? If so, you'd better get with the
    program. If you figure that you'll show it to everyone you care about
    showing it to in a couple of years, then I wouldn't worry about the
    medium. Just take reasonable care of it, and keep a couple of copies in
    a couple of safe places.
    Take still photographs on film. That's one of the best ways of
    preserving memories like this. They still make photographic film, don't
    they? I know a few digital photographers who have lost the equivalent
    of a couple of hundred rolls of film because a memory card won't read
    any more.
     
    Mike Rivers, Mar 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Doc

    Mike S. Guest

    Recent HP CDR's are manufacturted by CMC Magnetics, one of the bottom
    feeders. But your TASCAM is probably on the HP media as it is based on
    the old Philips CDD3610 drive, which is X2 speed, and has problems with
    power calibration (OPC) on newer media, particularly phthalocyanine.
    Newer cyanine and azo media seme to better with this drive.
     
    Mike S., Mar 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Doc

    Doc Guest

    I hear what you're saying but in the case of attractions and bands,
    obviously you lose a tremendous amount of the experience. That's the whole
    point of being able to record motion & sound.
     
    Doc, Mar 16, 2006
    #12
  13. Doc

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Mike, when is the last time you tried HP CDs? Do you remember what speed
    they were? Also, can I have the model number of your recorder? One last
    item, what speed are the TY CDs?

    Thanks,

    Glenn D.
     
    Glenn Dowdy, Mar 16, 2006
    #13
  14. Doc

    Tonester Guest

    I've been using Ritek DVD-R's since day one and they've been by far the best
    for me. I've still got Riteks I burned over 5 years ago that still work
    fine.

    I tried Taiyo Yuden once and noticed no real difference in the discs, but
    TY's printable surface sucks. If you don't care about that either one is
    fine.
     
    Tonester, Mar 16, 2006
    #14
  15. Doc

    Alpha Guest

    The best is Mitsui Archive Gold. Be prepared to pay a few dollars each.
     
    Alpha, Mar 16, 2006
    #15
  16. Doc

    Marc Heusser Guest

    FWIW I currently use www.mam-e.com gold pro both for CD and DVD
    archiving. Unless you have the equipment to test yourself, it is hard to
    put manufacturers claim's to the test though.
    YMMV

    HTH

    Marc
     
    Marc Heusser, Mar 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Doc

    unclejr Guest

    Tangentially related... I still have about 50 Mitsui white printables
    (with purple dye) that are 2x DVD-Rs. I don't use them much, because
    they're too damn slow to burn, when I've gotten quite accustomed to 8x
    burning lately. Excellent disc, otherwise.

    -Junior
     
    unclejr, Mar 16, 2006
    #17
  18. Doc

    Alpha Guest

    The MAM-E series is in fact Mitsui licensed, I am told.
     
    Alpha, Mar 16, 2006
    #18
  19. Doc

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    So shoot motion and sound on film. Call us and we'll send out a couple
    guys with an Arri and a Nagra.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Mar 16, 2006
    #19
  20. Doc

    Mike Rivers Guest

    I don't remember what speed they were. It was probably around 2 years
    ago. I could have kept them to use with a computer, but I just returned
    them to Micro Center or wherever it was where I bought them. They
    cheerfully refunded my money. It's a TASCAM CDRW-5000.
    They're rated at 52X and are 80 minute capacity. When I first got this
    recorder, I was buying 650 MB 16X disks at Office Depot and they worked
    fine, but you can't get them any more. I didn't expect that a 52X disk
    would work, but a generous soul from rec.audio.pro sent me a few as
    samples and they worked with no problems, so I ordered a stack. I don't
    burn too many CDs (can't keep track of them) so I don't go through 100
    very quickly. Hopefully the next batch I have to buy will still work.
     
    Mike Rivers, Mar 16, 2006
    #20
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