D80 - high ISO noise

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by frederick, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. frederick

    frederick Guest

    frederick, Aug 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. frederick

    Pete D Guest

    Totally invalid, meaningless test.
     
    Pete D, Aug 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. frederick

    Bill Guest

    Bill, Aug 10, 2006
    #3
  4. frederick

    cjcampbell Guest

    Amazing! Images taken with a camera that has not even been released
    yet! (And it is not scheduled for release for another month.)

    Maybe you would like to see the terrible color balance, noise, and
    purple fringing in my test shots with the Canon 1DS Mark III? Or the
    Hasselblad 1D-82? Or any other non-existent camera.
     
    cjcampbell, Aug 10, 2006
    #4
  5. frederick

    Bill Guest

    Pre-production samples have been in the hands of select people for a
    while. Where do you think sample photos for Nikon brochures, and online
    tests get their info?
     
    Bill, Aug 10, 2006
    #5
  6. frederick

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Aug 10, 2006
    #6
  7. frederick

    Alan Browne Guest

    Alan Browne, Aug 11, 2006
    #7
  8. frederick

    l e o Guest

    l e o, Aug 11, 2006
    #8
  9. frederick

    cjcampbell Guest

    And you honestly think that these photographs were produced by some of
    these "select people?"

    If these photographs were taken with a D80, lets see some proof.
     
    cjcampbell, Aug 11, 2006
    #9
  10. frederick

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    Download the image and check it out.

    From the one whose URL was given first:


    ======================================================================
    ExifTool Version Number : 5.05
    File Name : d80_1600.JPG
    File Size : 4763KB
    File Type : JPEG
    Make : NIKON CORPORATION
    Camera Model Name : NIKON D80
    Orientation : Horizontal (normal)
    Software : Ver.1.00
    Date/Time Of Last Modification : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    Shutter Speed : 1/20
    Aperture : 3.5
    Exposure Program : Program AE
    ISO Speed : 1600
    Exif Version : 0221
    Shooting Date/Time : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    Date/Time Of Digitization : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    Components Configuration : YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel : 4
    Exposure Compensation : 0
    Max Aperture Value : 3.5
    Metering Mode : Multi-segment
    Flash : No Flash
    Focal Length : 18.0mm
    File System Version : 2.10
    Color Mode : Color
    Quality : Fine
    White Balance : Auto
    Focus Mode : AF-S
    Flash Setting : Normal
    Flash Type :
    White Balance Fine Tune : 0
    Color Balance 1 : 1.21484 2.24219 1 1
    Compression : JPEG (old-style)
    X Resolution : 300
    Y Resolution : 300
    Resolution Unit : inches
    Preview Image Start : 3720
    Preview Image Length : 25188
    Y Cb Cr Positioning : Co-sited
    Flash Exposure Compensation : 0.0
    ISO Setting : 1600
    Image Boundary : 0 0 3872 2592
    Flash Exposure Bracket Value : 0.0
    Exposure Bracket Value : 0
    Tone Comp : Auto
    Lens Type : G
    Lens : 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6
    Flash Mode : Did Not Fire
    AF Point : Single Area, Center
    Shooting Mode : Single-Frame
    Lens F Stops : 5.33
    Color Hue : Mode1a
    Light Source : Natural
    Hue Adjustment : 0
    Noise Reduction : Off
    Color Balance Unknown : 0208[...]
    Shutter Count : 502
    Image Optimization : Normal
    Vari Program :
    User Comment :
    Sub Sec Time : 90
    Sub Sec Time Original : 90
    Sub Sec Time Digitized : 90
    Flashpix Version : 0100
    Color Space : sRGB
    Exif Image Width : 3872
    Exif Image Length : 2592
    Interoperability Index : R98
    Interoperability Version : 0100
    Sensing Method : One-chip color area
    File Source : Digital Camera
    Scene Type : Directly photographed
    CFA Pattern : [Green,Blue][Red,Green]
    Custom Rendered : Normal
    Exposure Mode : Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio : 1
    Focal Length In 35mm Format : 27
    Scene Capture Type : Standard
    Gain Control : High gain up
    Contrast : Normal
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    Subject Distance Range : Unknown (0)
    Thumbnail Offset : 29048
    Thumbnail Length : 8658
    Image Width : 3872
    Image Height : 2592
    Aperture : 3.5
    Image Size : 3872x2592
    Lens : 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 G
    Preview Image : (Binary data 25188 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Scale Factor To 35mm Equivalent : 1.5
    Shutter Speed : 1/20
    Shooting Date/Time : 2006:08:01 15:19:16.90
    Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 8658 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Focal Length : 18.0mm (35mm equivalent: 27.0mm)
    ======================================================================

    And from one of the others (daylight cityscape which wanted to download as just
    "nikon.jpg"):


    ======================================================================
    ExifTool Version Number : 5.05
    File Name : nikon-999.JPG
    File Size : 3679KB
    File Type : JPEG
    Make : NIKON CORPORATION
    Camera Model Name : NIKON D80
    Orientation : Horizontal (normal)
    Software : Ver.1.00
    Date/Time Of Last Modification : 2006:07:30 15:23:15
    Shutter Speed : 1/320
    Aperture : 9.0
    Exposure Program : Program AE
    ISO Speed : 100
    Exif Version : 0221
    Shooting Date/Time : 2006:07:30 15:23:15
    Date/Time Of Digitization : 2006:07:30 15:23:15
    Components Configuration : YCbCr
    Compressed Bits Per Pixel : 4
    Exposure Compensation : 0
    Max Aperture Value : 3.9
    Metering Mode : Multi-segment
    Flash : No Flash
    Focal Length : 24.0mm
    File System Version : 2.10
    Color Mode : Color
    Quality : Fine
    White Balance : Auto
    Focus Mode : AF-S
    Flash Setting : Normal
    Flash Type :
    White Balance Fine Tune : 0
    Color Balance 1 : 1.875 1.3125 1 1
    Compression : JPEG (old-style)
    X Resolution : 300
    Y Resolution : 300
    Resolution Unit : inches
    Preview Image Start : 3720
    Preview Image Length : 25042
    Y Cb Cr Positioning : Co-sited
    Flash Exposure Compensation : 0.0
    ISO Setting : 100
    Image Boundary : 0 0 3872 2592
    Flash Exposure Bracket Value : 0.0
    Exposure Bracket Value : 0
    Tone Comp : Auto
    Lens Type : G
    Lens : 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6
    Flash Mode : Did Not Fire
    AF Point : Single Area, Center
    Shooting Mode : Single-Frame
    Lens F Stops : 5.33
    Color Hue : Mode1a
    Light Source : Natural
    Hue Adjustment : 0
    Noise Reduction : Off
    Color Balance Unknown : 0208.(.<88>[email protected]"<81><90>..P<80><80>[email protected]<84>(<80>. .[...]
    Shutter Count : 366
    Image Optimization : Normal
    Vari Program :
    User Comment :
    Sub Sec Time : 50
    Sub Sec Time Original : 50
    Sub Sec Time Digitized : 50
    Flashpix Version : 0100
    Color Space : sRGB
    Exif Image Width : 3872
    Exif Image Length : 2592
    Interoperability Index : R98
    Interoperability Version : 0100
    Sensing Method : One-chip color area
    File Source : Digital Camera
    Scene Type : Directly photographed
    CFA Pattern : [Green,Blue][Red,Green]
    Custom Rendered : Normal
    Exposure Mode : Auto
    Digital Zoom Ratio : 1
    Focal Length In 35mm Format : 36
    Scene Capture Type : Standard
    Gain Control : None
    Contrast : +2
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    Subject Distance Range : Unknown (0)
    Thumbnail Offset : 28900
    Thumbnail Length : 8899
    Image Width : 3872
    Image Height : 2592
    Aperture : 9.0
    Image Size : 3872x2592
    Lens : 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 G
    Preview Image : (Binary data 25042 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Scale Factor To 35mm Equivalent : 1.5
    Shutter Speed : 1/320
    Shooting Date/Time : 2006:07:30 15:23:15.50
    Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 8899 bytes, use -b option to extract)
    Focal Length : 24.0mm (35mm equivalent: 36.0mm)
    ======================================================================

    How much more do you need?

    And yes -- they *are* JPGs, not BMPs as was suggested earlier.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Aug 11, 2006
    #10
  11. frederick

    frederick Guest

    I don't know why you can't read exif - seems to be intact. Of course
    there is no "proof" it isn't forged.
    The D80 / a100 comparisons aren't particularly interesting due to the
    large difference in exposure, and unless you can read japanese on the
    other link, no idea what NR settings were used in camera etc.


    Filename : d80_16001.JPG
    JFIF_APP1 : Exif
    Main Information
    Make : NIKON CORPORATION
    Model : NIKON D80
    Orientation : left-hand side
    XResolution : 300/1
    YResolution : 300/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    Software : Ver.1.00
    DateTime : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
    ExifInfoOffset : 216
    Sub Information
    ExposureTime : 1/20Sec
    FNumber : F3.5
    ExposureProgram : Program Normal
    ISOSpeedRatings : 1600
    ExifVersion : 0221
    DateTimeOriginal : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    DateTimeDigitized : 2006:08:01 15:19:16
    ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    CompressedBitsPerPixel : 4/1 (bit/pixel)
    ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    MaxApertureValue : F3.5
    MeteringMode : Division
    LightSource : Unidentified
    Flash : Not fired
    FocalLength : 18.00(mm)
    MakerNote : Nikon COOLPIX Format : 28044Bytes (Offset:860)
    UserComment :
    SubSecTime : 90
    SubSecTimeOriginal : 90
    SubSecTimeDigitized : 90
    FlashPixVersion : 0100
    ColorSpace : sRGB
    ExifImageWidth : 3872
    ExifImageHeight : 2592
    ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 28896
    SensingMethod : OneChipColorArea sensor
    FileSource : DSC
    SceneType : A directly photographed image
    CFAPattern : 8 Bytes
    CustomRendered : Normal process
    ExposureMode : Auto
    WhiteBalance : Auto
    DigitalZoomRatio : 1/1
    FocalLength(35mm) : 27(mm)
    SceneCaptureType : Standard
    GainControl : High gain up
    Contrast : Normal
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    SubjectDistanceRange : Unknown
    ExifR98
    ExifR : R98
    Version : 0100
    Thumbnail Information
    Compression : OLDJPEG
    XResolution : 300/1
    YResolution : 300/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    JPEGInterchangeFormat : 29036
    JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 8658
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
     
    frederick, Aug 11, 2006
    #11
  12. frederick

    cjcampbell Guest

    Exactly. Anyone can change EXIF data.

    1) There are no D80s in the hands of the general public.

    2) None of the credible reviewers seem to have a D80 yet.

    3) Anyone publishing pictures like that could pretty well be guaranteed
    to never be allowed near a preview copy of a new Nikon again.

    4) The pictures have been processed, as noted by others, so even if
    they were taken with a D80 we have no idea what was done to them in the
    interim or what the settings were.

    Without further evidence that these photographs are genuine and
    untampered with they should be simply dismissed out of hand.
     
    cjcampbell, Aug 11, 2006
    #12
  13. frederick

    Bill Guest

    I didn't say that. I merely stated that pre-production samples have been
    in the hands of some people for a while.

    Download the pdf brochure for some interesting details.
    If there were taken with a D80, they suck. I'm confident the images are
    not representative of the capabilities of either camera, real or not.
     
    Bill, Aug 11, 2006
    #13
  14. frederick

    Bill Guest

    Well yes and no.

    I went back and checked - if you click on the thumbnail it takes you to
    a bitmap file. The first sky scene is a 28.7meg file.

    But if you right-click on the thumbnail and save the target image, it's
    a jpg...very weird behaviour.

    I have both here and I've compared them - they're the same image, just
    two different formats.
     
    Bill, Aug 11, 2006
    #14
  15. frederick

    Alan Browne Guest

    I DL'd the photo as shown and loaded into PS Elements. All EXIF fields
    were blank. That may be a shortcoming of PS Elements, OTOH, I DL files
    from elsewhere and the EXIF are intact. That was not the case with this
    image at the link provided.
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 11, 2006
    #15
  16. frederick

    Alan Browne Guest

    To be sure. However I would expect that the EXIF be intact in the
    presented image. It is not (at least as far as PS E 3 can tell. Forged
    or otherwise (there is a risk to "forging" as well as one might put in a
    giveaway that it is a forgery).

    Yep.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 11, 2006
    #16
  17. frederick

    Alan Browne Guest

    I did. And in PS E 3 ... no EXIF data. May be an issue with PSE 3,
    however.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 11, 2006
    #17
  18. frederick

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    Including the same resolution? (Obviously not the same size,
    given how poor BMP is at compressing -- that is, it doesn't. :)

    I'm not even sure that my system could *display* a BMP image
    with my browser, since BMP is native to Windows, not to unix. I do
    have programs which can render the images, but as I said, I'm not sure
    about the browser (Opera, FWIW.)

    The first image I just downloaded directly using "wget" (no
    browser involved). The second one (the one with a tower in a gridwork
    as the central part) I clicked on the thumbnail, then selected to save
    the resulting image to my system to check -- and both of those were
    JPEGs, and both with full exif data. I don't *think* that my browser
    would download a BMP and convert it to JPEG -- and miraculously preserve
    the exif data, which I don't think can even be included in a BMP image.
    :)

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Aug 11, 2006
    #18
  19. frederick

    l e o Guest


    Are you using IE? If so, it's likely your temporary internet folder is
    full. Just clear it and the correct .jpg suffix will return. Or use a
    better browser, Firefox.
     
    l e o, Aug 11, 2006
    #19
  20. frederick

    Bill Guest

    Same resolution and pixels...but as I said above, it's a 28.7meg file.
    It takes about 3x as long to download over the same jpg.

    See my next post...
     
    Bill, Aug 11, 2006
    #20
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