Darkening on the endge of the neg - 120

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Peter Chant, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. Peter Chant

    John Boy Guest

    Over agitation. The reels should not move in the tank with inversion.
    The bubble you leave in the top of the tank is sufficient to agitate.

    An aside - I let newly mixed developer "settle down" for half an hour
    before I use it from stock solution. Nope, makes no difference to the
    energetic quality of the developer but it helps ME settle down.

    If it helps at all, a colleague of mine and I have this happen at least
    once a year, and we each have forty-plus years of experience. What can I
    say, we f*uck up sometimes.
    John Boy, Jul 3, 2007
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  2. Peter Chant

    Rob Morley Guest

    It says "darkening on the edge of the neg" - exposure to light makes a
    developed negative darker, no?
    Rob Morley, Jul 3, 2007
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  3. Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:


    For the past 10 years or so, I've been using Paterson tanks for 3x120
    reels, using inversion agitation and have never had any problems of any
    kind. Works for me!

    Why do you claim that "The Paterson tank isn't made for inversion
    agitation with a 120 reel" ?????

    Bogdan Karasek
    Montr‚al, Qu‚bec bogdan at bogdanphoto.com
    Canada www.bogdanphoto.com

    "I photograph my reality"
    Bogdan Karasek, Jul 3, 2007
  4. Peter Chant

    John Boy Guest

    Yes. I messed up. Sorry.
    I have not read nor heard Ta for decades. It's good, Mate.
    John Boy, Jul 3, 2007
  5. Peter Chant

    Peter Chant Guest

    OK, not quite up on the term bromide streaking but the one time I've had
    apallingly stained / streaked film was when I tried reversal. Perhaps when
    feeling brave again I ought to try it again using inversion.

    Peter Chant, Jul 3, 2007
  6. That sounds like a very different Paterson tank: mine takes 2x35mm or
    1x120. About 7" tall, black, blue plastic top, white reels ...
    There is a large head-space above the 120 reel and the reel isn't
    held in position. I don't know that it would slide up and down if
    it is put onto the whirly-thingy post, but the reel isn't held to
    the center post with a positive mechanism but just slips on with a
    bit of friction.
    I have never tried inversion 120 with a Paterson, so my concern is

    o The large head-space allows liquid to slosh.

    o The reel can slip to the top of the post and then be left 1/2 out of the
    developer or 'hang' in the middle of the tank.

    Filling the tank to the very top would mitigate the above. Loose reels
    and part full tanks give problems with S. Steel.

    It just doesn't seem that inversion 120 was a priority in the design
    of the tank.
    No arguments - I bow to your experience.
    If I could find mine I might take a picture of it.
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 3, 2007
  7. Peter Chant

    Beaver Lad Guest

    My Paterson tank comes with a circular clip that slides down over the
    centre post and holds the reel(s) in position; it (they) can not move,
    once this is done.

    I've been inverting Paterson tanks containing several 120 rolls for
    decades, with no problems whatever.
    Beaver Lad, Jul 4, 2007
  8. I have to confess to egg on my face...

    My 'Paterson' tank was a freebee that came with something else.
    I have only used it a few times to develop 127 film shot with
    an Empire Baby camera - where uneven development would never be

    I just looked at it again, and it isn't a Paterson, it is a clone
    of an older model Paterson System-4/not-super. Except that my
    clone doesn't have the small 'C' clip for holding the reel in place
    for inversion processing.

    Mystery explained.

    "Never mind." - Emily Litella
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 5, 2007
  9. Peter Chant

    Peter Chant Guest

    Though probally at least 20 years old I think mine is the latest design. No
    clip but I suspect friction holds stuff in place. Perhaps a dry (wet) run
    with water and no film would be prudent.

    Peter Chant, Jul 5, 2007

  10. Bromide streaking is caused by partially exhausted
    developer being moved along the surface of the film and
    causing reduced development in line with dense areas. Some
    developers are more prone to do this than others depending
    on the nature of their reaction products. I've been using
    inversion tanks for many years so have not had this problem
    with them, however, I have had it when developing sheet film
    in print drums. The drums were agitated on a motor base.
    There was plenty of agitation along the rotational axis but
    nearly none sidways. The cure was to agitate manually and
    make sure to agitate sideways enough to get fresh developer
    to all parts of the negatives.
    Reversal development has other sources of problems.
    Incomplete bleaching will cause problems, the streaking
    could have originated from the bleach step. Reversal
    development is development to completion so its usually
    pretty much immune from agitation variations unless they are
    very bad. I am writing about B&W reversal but color reversal
    also has a set of vices all its own.
    Richard Knoppow, Jul 5, 2007
  11. Peter Chant

    Peter Chant Guest

    OK, tried this, sort of (could not manage 10 inversions in 5 sec) and it
    worked fine (though twiddle development was usually fine). No sign of
    darkening near the edge. Must be prepared to splash around a little
    developer as despite taking care a little leaked from the Paterson tank.
    Maybe I was being a bit keen with my inverting.

    Peter Chant, Jul 12, 2007
  12. I did some time trials: I do about 7 inversions / seconds. The
    exact number doesn't matter as long as it is done consistently
    roll to roll.
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 12, 2007
  13. Peter Chant

    jj Guest

    This might be controversial, but I use MINIMUM agitation - as little as
    I can get away with. However, I also use highly dilute Rodinal so that I
    have long development times. The exception is with scenes with little
    tonal range where I use D76 1:1 and sweat it out with two inversions
    every 30 seconds, no slop in the reels (I stick a bottle cap over the
    top reel to keep it from sliding.

    Anyone who has not tried stand-developing to control high contrast
    scenes might be enlightened by the process. Try it with a good, slow 120
    film. I used it for Agfa 100. Dilute Rodinal 1:150. Two 120 reels in a
    two-reel tank. Pour it in, rap out the bubbles and go away for an hour.
    Or 40 minutes. It doesn't make much difference. The developer expires in
    the process.
    jj, Jul 12, 2007
  14. I think it's a case of whatever floats your reels.

    Advice is all over the map.

    The more experience I get the closer I stick to - oh, the
    horror of it - just what the manufacturer says.
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 12, 2007
  15. Nicholas O. Lindan spake thus:
    Gee, you don't suppose *they* would be qualified to instruct how to use
    their product, woodja? Nah ...

    Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
    of use of the word "****" is incapable of writing a good summary
    and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
    This is an inviolable rule.

    - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
    David Nebenzahl, Jul 12, 2007
  16. Peter Chant

    Peter Chant Guest

    Have FP4 - have Rodinal - been meaning to try it.

    Is it good for general use or just special cases (i.e. not for your limited
    tonal range example)?
    Peter Chant, Jul 13, 2007
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