Deep dark greens in shadows print dark brown

Discussion in 'Photoshop' started by David DeBar, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. David DeBar

    David DeBar Guest

    I used the Monaco EZ color w/ Optix to calibrate both my LCD and CRT and my
    Epson 2200 printer. I have a photo that is driving me nuts. It's a great
    photo of the "Grand" in the Grand Tetons. The mountain has it's top
    sticking into some big fluffy clouds and a sparkling stream is in the
    foreground on it's way to the base of the distant mountain. It looks great
    on my screens but when I print it, a large stand of deep dark green trees
    print a drab dark brown, not deep green like the CRT.

    I have spent weeks and a lot of paper and ink attempting to adjust my
    printer profile to make the print look like the CRT to no avail. I
    downloaded a profile from Red River that was made for my printer. This
    profile was a disaster, giving the picture a purple cast.

    I could cheat and use the color replace tool to change the dark green to a
    lighter green and hope that prints more like what I want. I would rather
    make a global change to my printer profile so it matches my screens. The
    rest of the picture looks great! It's just this one dark shade of green that
    is giving me a fit.

    Thank you for any suggestions.

    Dave
     
    David DeBar, Aug 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. David DeBar

    Toby Thain Guest

    I had a similar problem with Photoshop's RGB->CMYK separations (from
    sRGB or Adobe RGB). Eventually I found a solution: avoid UCR and use
    GCR separation instead. Switching to GCR fixed a lot of problems I was
    having with brownish/reddish shadows changing colour and going flat in
    CMYK.

    In line with typical trade seps here, I use a Black limit of 70%,
    Light black generation, and a total limit of 350% (usual SWOP, 20% dot
    gain).

    My guess is you're using GCR anyway (usual in North America I believe)
    so the above advice may not help.

    --Toby
     
    Toby Thain, Aug 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. David DeBar

    nutsalso Guest

    I'm having similar problems on my 1270 and 1280, and surprised to hear
    it is on the 2200. Using Epson's media profiles, the majority of the
    colors would soft proof and print pretty accurately. But there are some
    dark saturated colors that would turn very dull and way off in soft
    proof and in print. (Does your soft proof also turn dull?) Once these
    colors are present, I have never been able to correct them globally
    without screwing everything else up. I now soft proof incrementally
    during my editing workflow and try to avoid these colors earlier in the
    game. I belief that the media profiles are not handling these colors
    correctly. But I don't know enough to mess around with the profiles.
    What is the rgb values of the dark green color you have problem with?
     
    nutsalso, Aug 29, 2004
    #3
  4. David DeBar

    nutsalso Guest

    I'm not sure how "Photoshop's RGB->CMYK separations" comes into this
    discussion. My understanding is that even if you work in the cmyk space,
    the file will be converted to the rgb space before being sent to the
    Epson driver. I work in the rgb space, and leave the cmyk preference
    settings at their default values. I think that the cmyk Black limit and
    Total limit values are only meaningful if your printer driver accepts a
    cmyk file. Please clarify.
     
    nutsalso, Aug 29, 2004
    #4
  5. David DeBar

    Toby Thain Guest

    Your explanation sounds right to me. Unless the driver is asking for,
    and getting CMYK, then the separation setup does look irrelevant. Even
    if the driver wants CMYK, the separation would be governed by the
    printer profile, making my explanation irrelevant anyway?

    --Toby
     
    Toby Thain, Aug 30, 2004
    #5
  6. David DeBar

    David DeBar Guest

    I'll answer the question I can, but I'm not skilled enough to answer all of
    your questions. I can tell you that I'm in the USA so I guess I'm using
    GRC?
    Since I set Photoshop to work with the MoacoEZ color system I no longer get
    a large preview prior to printing. I was advised to turn that off.because
    the colors shown in this preview would no longer be accurate. I do get a
    very small preview when I chose print with preview. The colors look good in
    that tiny picture. I don't know how to find the rgb values of a particular
    spot of color. I can tell you it's a very dark green, almost black. If I
    remove the color from the picture those trees look BLACK.

    I'm starting to think that the problem is a basic incompatibility with
    screen colors and the colors that paper and ink can produce. I think color
    monitors have a very large range from the brightest whites to the darkest
    shadows, that ink and paper can not replicate. If I turn up the brightness
    enough to print the colors in the shadows of a stand of trees, I blow out
    the light gray in my white clouds and the clouds become flat. If I tone
    down the brightness to give the clouds texture, then the green shadows go to
    muddy brown. I have played with my printer profile using the tools that
    MonacoEZcolor provides. Overall my screen and print colors match very
    closely! It is just that I'm unable to reproduce on paper, the range of
    brightness that my LCD and CRT. I decided to use the "replace color" tool
    and simply brighten up the troublesome dark shadows a bit before printing.
    THIS WORKS. Perhaps it's not a fix that a purist would like but it's the
    only fix I have found.

    If someone else this that know a way to solve this printing problem, give me
    your email and I'll gladly send you a JPG of the image.

    Dave
     
    David DeBar, Aug 30, 2004
    #6
  7. David DeBar

    David DeBar Guest

    I believe I have solved the problem! As I said before in this thread, the
    problem is that there is no way paper and ink can provide the range of
    brightness that my CRT can show or that the film I used (Fujicolor Superia
    ISO 200) can capture.

    I found a Photoshop plug-in called shadowfixer that solved the problem for
    me. I'll send them the $17 today.

    Dave
     
    David DeBar, Aug 30, 2004
    #7
  8. David DeBar

    Fred Athearn Guest

    From the manual
    http://www.fixerlabs.com/documents/ReadMe_ShadowFixer.pdf
    this sounds to me like something similar to a stripped down version of
    the image>adjustments>highlight/shadow... feature of CS. I notice
    that it does not seem to be available on CS.
     
    Fred Athearn, Sep 1, 2004
    #8
  9. It is indeed. I don't see how ShadowFixer would solve the problem of a
    color cast in the shadows. It only lightens them.
     
    Johan W. Elzenga, Sep 1, 2004
    #9
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