Deluxe PS cameras (Ricoh GRx, Nikon xxTi, etc)

Discussion in 'Ricoh' started by Ajanta, Jul 15, 2004.

  1. Ajanta

    Ajanta Guest

    I would like to get a better ps camera, one that gives me greater
    control, than my stylus epic. I understand that companies like Nikon
    and Ricoh have produced certain "deluxe" ps cameras, but I am not
    familiar with them.

    I would be grateful if the experts here could tell me how these cameras
    rank among themselves. Which is the best one? Best value? (It need not
    be in current production, I'd be happy to search for a used one if it
    seems just right.)

    Thanks.
     
    Ajanta, Jul 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Ajanta

    Roger Guest

    Check out the Contax T3 in your search. It's currently in production
    and I think there is also a current rebate. You might do a google
    search in this group for Contax T3, there has been a lot written about
    the camera here and elsewhere. I have one and it is excellent. It's
    been the perfect camera for me when I can't tote all my SLR gear. It's
    also a my always-carry camera.

    My other P&S is a Stylus Epic. If the cost doesn't put you off, the T3
    beats it hands down in adjustability, lens flare, contrast and
    definition. I have some remarkable photos from my Epic, but they were
    under ideal conditions. The T3 is a bit more forgiving about lighting
    direction and has an edge in contrast and definition. The real benefit
    for me is the option of an aperture preferred metering system, coupled
    with a manual focus that allows it to be set up for snap-shot
    situations where you must minimize any delays.

    I just plain like this camera. I do have a lens hood option for it,
    although it's a very minimal hood.

    Regards,
    Roger
     
    Roger, Jul 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ajanta

    Jeremy Guest

    The T3 has a lenshood??? Does it come with the camera or is it sold
    separately?
     
    Jeremy, Jul 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Ajanta

    Ajanta Guest

    Thanks. How heavy is T3? Have you ever had a chance to compare it with
    Ricoh GR family and Nikon 28/35Ti?
     
    Ajanta, Jul 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Ajanta

    Newbie Guest

    Interesting question. I am an Stylus Epic owner too and have a cursory
    familiarity with some of these deluxe offerings as you call them.

    Ricoh GR's: I have used a friend's GR1 and did like it very much. I
    think I had some issue with focus/exposure lock. (Also, 28mm was great
    at certain times and too wide at others, but that's not a Ricoh issue.)
    They came out with many other models later, but I don't know them.

    Nikin 28/35ti: Because fo the issue with 28mm, I would pick 35. But I
    never had a chance to compare it with Ricoh's.

    Contax T3: Well regarded, but I have no idea how it compares with the
    Ricoh's or the Nikons.

    There were also offerings from Minolta and Konica if I remember.

    OK, so I have not been a great help in this post. :) However, I hope
    many others will post their experiences and conclusions and that will
    help.

    Is their a review article that covers and compares this breed?
     
    Newbie, Jul 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Ajanta

    Sabineellen Guest

    Hi Ajante, It would help a lot if you let us know what exactly do you require
    in a "deluxe" ps camera.

    You said you wanted "greater control", how much control? Is exposure
    compensation enough? is aperture-priority enough? do you require full manual?
    do you want manual focus? do you want to set the ASA/ISO manually or are you
    content with DX coding?

    Do you require the automatic features? do you need AF? do you need
    auto-exposure? do you need a built-in flash? do you require that it does *not*
    have an in-built flash? do you require a hotshoe to use an external flash?

    What about the lens? do you want it fixed or zoom? do you want it wide or
    telephoto?

    What are your size requirements? do you want it to be the size of the stylus
    epic of is a little bigger okay? how will you carry it? does it have to be
    pocketable or will you carry in a bag, belt-pouch? are you keeping your stylus
    and using the "deluxe" for "controlled" shooting or do you want it to become
    the only one you use? what topics will you be shooting? do you want it to be
    exceptionally durable and weatherproof? do you want it to be exceptionally
    quite and discrete? Does it have to be 35mm? will a digital one be okay?

    What price is too much?

    Regards
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Ajanta

    Roger Guest

    It's sold separately and the "parts" are listed on the Adorama
    website. I bought mine in Hong Kong. It's a bit expensive but I find
    it useful for when I'm traveling and taking a lot of daytime pictures
    and don't have control over the lighting.

    It also gives my lens a bit more protection but usually I just waste
    the power and turn off the power retracting the lens when in
    lens-hostile territory.

    Roger
     
    Roger, Jul 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Ajanta

    Roger Guest

    The T3 is quite light weight and there is titanium used in the outer
    shell. All the specs are available on many sites plus
    www.contaxcameras.com. The camera fits in a shirt pocket and comes
    with a very nice fitting leather belt pouch. Physically I think it's a
    trifle larger than a GR and about the same as a Ti.

    I think the comparison of the three is largely a "religious" issue and
    which one fits your style or lens focal length preference. I do know
    the 28Ti is a bit difficult to find as it became more popular after it
    was discontinued. At one point I was required to have back surgery and
    the T3 was a way to reduce my load during rehabilitation. It changed
    my photography, shifted my normal lens choice from a 50mm to a 35mm,
    forced me to think in only one focal length for a year or so. Became a
    constant companion and can do everything I want (with some very minor
    annoyances) in an adjustable camera. My normal system is a Nikon
    F3/F5/F100 with a choice of about 20 lenses or a Leica M6 w/ 35mm and
    50mm f1.4 lenses. The T3 is simply a very useable compact
    carry-anywhere camera but I'm not sure about it's underwater options.

    Regards,
    Roger
     
    Roger, Jul 15, 2004
    #8
  9. (sorry to chime in)

    I have used a T3 briefly and owned a GR1S (equally briefly- money issues, as
    always). The T3 seems considerably larger than the GRxx series, but then
    again most things do. I prefer the 35mm focal length, though, and would
    consider the T3 worth it just for that.
     
    Martin Francis, Jul 15, 2004
    #9
  10. Ajanta

    Bandicoot Guest

    I have a Ricoh GR1v and rate it very highly. The lens is a 28mm, and that
    either suits what you want to use the camera for it doesn't, so that is
    probably the first deciding factor. 28mm is good for me in an 'always with
    me' pocket camera, but others will prefer 35mm or even 40-45mm.

    The Ricoh's lens is excellent - as good as any SLR lens. The little built
    in flash is quite adequate and produces very effective balanced fill - as is
    normal it can be always on, always off, or left to the camera to decide, and
    with or without red-eye reduction.

    You can use it in a programmed mode or aperture priority. There is two
    stops each way of exposure compensation in half stop steps and you can also
    set the ISO manually (it defaults to the DX reading, and you can change it
    if you want). You get viewfinder readout of the speed and an icon
    indicating approximately what distance it has focused on. No 'true' manual,
    though since you get the readout you can do it via exposure compensation or
    manual ISO setting if you need to

    Focus can be set to multipoint or just the centre sensor, locked on
    infinity, or locked on a closer distance that is good for street shooting.
    The focus is very accurate. Those modes are the ones that the main mode
    menu cycles through: you can also set it to one of four or five (I forget)
    pre-set distances or focus on something and get it to hold that distance -
    in both cases these stay set till you cancel them or cycle the power.
    Shutter lag is not bad, especially if you half press the shutter to lock
    focus first, but it becomes better in any of the modes where focus is
    pre-set.

    There's also auto bracketing and a self timer, a low light focus assist
    light (which works surprisingly well) and some other odds and ends. The
    camera comes (came) with a nice bayonet fitting lens hood and you can get a
    bayonet fitting ring that allows use of 40.5mm filters. The ease of using
    filters is a big plus for me, as I often use a polariser with it, or
    contrast filters when it has B&W loaded.

    Magnesium alloy makes it very light, and it is very small. The leather belt
    pouch is nicely made too.

    Differences I know of between the models: the GR1s didn't have manual ISO
    setting; the original GR1 also didn't have the 'manual' focus options (but
    still the 'main menu' modes). There may be other differences.

    Obviously, I like mine a lot. Three of my SI contributions have come from
    this camera: my Night People, Rogue's Gallery and Wildcard shots. All B&W
    as it happens, though the Ricoh often has Portra 400UC in it if it is the
    only camera I have on me, B&W more often if I am also carrying an SLR with
    colour. The Night People one is one of my favourite shots.

    If I took fewer landscapes I might prefer a 35mm lens, but maybe not. If I
    did the Contax T3 would probably come near the top of my list, though it is
    a lot bigger than the Ricoh. As it is for the sort of low light people work
    where a 35mm lens is especially nice I have my Yashica Electro 35 CC - and I
    also have a Leica Mini (currently lent to a friend) and an Olympus XA,
    neither of which see that much use anymore. A little longer still is nice
    for some subjects, and I like my Petri Color 35 and Konica Auto S3. So I do
    have several compact choices (too many, some would say...) but it is the
    28mm that I decided I wanted most often, and so the Ricoh became my eventual
    'constant companion' with one or more of the others simply getting chosen
    when I have something specific in mind.

    Sometimes I have just the camera, with the lens hood and some filters in a
    pocket if possible. Other times I have a very small waist pack that holds
    all that plus a spare roll of film or two, a tiny Minox tripod, a RRS
    bracket that makes verticals on the tripod work better, and also room for my
    mobile 'phone. This pack has room for a second camera, and that is
    sometimes the Yashica Electro 35 CC - in which case there'll be colour in
    the Ricoh and B&W in the Yashica, probably. At least one of my (female)
    friends calls this pack my handbag.



    Peter
     
    Bandicoot, Jul 16, 2004
    #10
  11. Ajanta

    Ajanta Guest

    Thanks for your questions. They helped me think systematically
    I would like to be able to use it as true ps: hence auto everything, as
    well as built-in flash.

    However, I would also like to able to intervene when I feel the need.
    Exposure compensation is must. Manual focus may be nice but not
    absolutely necessary.
    Little bigger ok.
    Pocketable is better. I also carry them with a strap around my neck (so
    you really feel the weight, but it is an old habit).
    I will keep both but my guess is the deluxe one will become my primary
    camera if only because I wouldn't want to carry both all the time. Time
    will tell.
    Mix. People, travel photos.
    How can I say no to that. The epic has served me well though.
    35mm. Not into digital yet.
    New Leicas. :)
    I can spend a few hundred, and I am willing to buy used.
     
    Ajanta, Jul 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Ajanta

    Sabineellen Guest

    Like the others said, Contax T3, Rollei AFM 35, Ricoh GR series.
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Ajanta

    Rico Tudor Guest

    Actually, the T3 is 18% smaller by volume, although heavier. From their
    respective web sites:

    wt. W H D
    GR1v 178g 117mm 61mm 34mm
    T3 227g 104mm 64mm 30mm

    Nice writeup, BTW. I'm fairly saturated with P&S already (Contax T,
    T3, Yashica T4 Zoom), otherwise I'd considered the Ricoh GR1v or GR21.
    More than film SLR, this camera genre is plunging to extinction: sad.

    --------
     
    Rico Tudor, Jul 16, 2004
    #13
  14. Ajanta

    Sabineellen Guest

    I'd considered the Ricoh

    Rico wants a Ricoh
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 16, 2004
    #14
  15. Ajanta

    Peter Chant Guest

    Rico wants a Ricoh
    [/QUOTE]

    second hand unfortunately, they've been discontinued.
     
    Peter Chant, Jul 16, 2004
    #15
  16. Ajanta

    Sabineellen Guest

    Some "new" ones are still showing up on ebay from time to time, but you'd have
    to wait and pay too much. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago or so, there was
    a bunch of "new and sealed" rollei 35s and rollei 35se that were on ebay.
    Apparently they were found in the storage of an old shop in South America and
    one was found in Saudi Arabia.
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 16, 2004
    #16
  17. Ajanta

    Peter Chant Guest

    Some "new" ones are still showing up on ebay from time to time, but you'd have
    to wait and pay too much. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago or so, there was
    a bunch of "new and sealed" rollei 35s and rollei 35se that were on ebay.
    Apparently they were found in the storage of an old shop in South America and
    one was found in Saudi Arabia.[/QUOTE]

    Its just nice to know that if you have a current model you like it is
    replacable without too much fuss. Not that I've ever lost a camera,
    but I'm sure you know what I mean.

    As for paying too much, I suppose 'new' ones have a scarecety value.

    Its a shame, everyone, and I mean _everyone_ should have a GR1 series
    camera. OK, maybe a GR10 for the people who would cock it up with a
    GR1'x'.
     
    Peter Chant, Jul 16, 2004
    #17
  18. Ajanta

    Sabineellen Guest

    I must say that I balked at the prices of the GR series that were on ebay. It
    sure has a fanbase that's willing to launch a bidding war whenever one shows
    up.

    I now don't see the point, to be honest. I'd rather carry a small bag than
    search for the perfect, tiny P&S.
     
    Sabineellen, Jul 17, 2004
    #18
  19. Ajanta

    Bandicoot Guest

    Interesting: the GR1 certainly 'feels' smaller. In fact for about 3/4 of
    its length it is only 26mm deep, not 34 which is just the 'grip' the
    protrudes at the right hand end (and gives it the depth to fit a film in!),
    which may be why it feels so small.
    Tahnks. Just today a friend (a Rollei 35S user, as it happens) was looking
    at my GR1v and I had to say I suspected it was quite possible there'd never
    be anything else made like it - unless Contax decide to make a 28mm lensed
    'T' series camera, I suppose.



    Peter
     
    Bandicoot, Jul 18, 2004
    #19
  20. Ajanta

    Ted Azito Guest

    Deluxe P&S...over there by the jumbo shrimp.
     
    Ted Azito, Jul 18, 2004
    #20
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