dropping frames on capture

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Steve S., Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    I'm learning to author DVD's with a HP 300vi writer and the ArcSoft software
    that came with it. The only problem I'm having is what I think are dropped
    frames during capture, occurring perhaps 3-4 times every 10 minutes of
    video. I'm going to basically be spending the day trying every variable I
    can think of, but I'd really appreciate suggestions. Has anyone had this
    problem and solved it? What variables should I be looking at?

    Steve S.
    Steve S., Nov 18, 2003
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  2. Steve S.

    coolmercy Guest

    Some more info 'bout the system. the software and its settings would
    be nice :)

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands
    mailto:[email protected]
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    coolmercy, Nov 18, 2003
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  3. 3 to 4 are not large numbers. (work out the percentages :)

    Unless you really need all frames (i.e looking for tachyons
    in a CERN experiment :) then don't worry about it.

    Simon Walters, Nov 18, 2003
  4. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    I recently moved and don't have all the boxes for various components I've
    purchased, but I'll describe my system as best I know.

    I have a 1.1gig AMD processor. If the manual I have here is the most recent
    one, the motherboard is an ABIT KG7. I know from previous troubleshooting
    with Adobe Premiere that I have the VIA chipset which is not so
    video-friendly, and I've installed the "4-in-one" drivers for it. That
    seemed to help problems I was having exporting video in Premiere.

    My video card is an A-Open G-Force--I'm not sure which model--2?

    My capture card is an inexpensive one I bought, firewire, when my Pinnacle
    DV200 card wouldn't capture properly. I decided to bypass Pinnacle
    altogether and capture through this second card in Premiere, which has
    worked fine. If there's a way to determine what card it is I'll find out. I
    don't know whether this card is compatible with the HP DVD writer software
    or not. This is what HP customer service is focusing in on. (I prefer to
    look at the less expensive fixes first.)

    Here are some things I've tried:

    1) defragging the drive
    2) capturing a tape that was shot in the mini-dv camera, i.e., not edited
    and rendered in Premiere and then exported back out
    3) saving the captured video as interlaced vs. progressive scan
    4) set hard drive to DMA
    5) reinstalled the DVD writer software (HP recommends a manual install--I
    haven't tried that yet)
    6) play the captured and converted mpg2 video with Real Player to be sure it
    wasn't just the player
    7) capture in .avi and convert to mpg2 (the software crashes when I try)
    8) capture and convert to mpg1 (works fine)
    9) change "modes" in the HP software (I don't know what it does, but I tried
    both "mode 1" and "mode 2")
    10) rendered into an .avi file directly from the Premiere timeline, and then
    converted to mpg2 in the HP software (this worked as far as audio was
    concerned, no system crash, but no video). And it took *forever* to render
    just 4-1/2 minutes of video.

    I have a few more things to try tomorrow. What I think I need is a different
    program altogether which will capture and convert to mpg2, or a plug-in for
    Premiere (6.01) so that I can render directly off the timeline to mpg2,
    which I can't do now. Or I need a new capture card. Suggestions?

    Let me know if this isn't enough information or if I've left something
    crucial out. Thanks for taking time to help me with this.

    In answer to the second person who responded, I'm putting out a commercial
    documentary on a low budget, and it can't have any dropped frames. I also
    can't afford to have it authored commercially, and will be duplicating at
    home since I only get a handful of orders per month. But I still have to
    keep the quality up as much as possible and dropped frames aren't acceptable
    in something I'm going to charge money for.

    Steve S.

    I moved recently and don't have access to all the specs as I did before the
    Steve S., Nov 19, 2003
  5. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    p.s. I'm running 98SE. It's been a long, long day...
    Steve S., Nov 19, 2003
  6. Steve S.

    mikep76 Guest

    Since you are running 98SE, is it possible that your frame-drop
    interval is actually about 9 min. 35 sec., rather than 10 minutes?
    That would correspond to the 2 GB file size limit on some
    system/software combinations. Could your capture software be dropping
    a few frames each time it has to start a new 2 GB file on the fly?

    On my old Sony VAIO, I had the opposite problem....instead of dropping
    frames, I routinely got 17 EXTRA frames of the last frame in each 2GB
    capture. I had to remember to go to single-frame view in Premiere 4.2
    and 5.1 and remove those extra frames before editing, or they would
    cause a 1/2 second "freeze" with no audio if they were left in.

    Just a thought ;-)
    mikep76, Nov 19, 2003
  7. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    No, I'm not approaching the 2 GB limit on individual captures.

    I noticed that TMPGEnc was referenced several times in this newsgroup for
    converting to mpg2, so I downloaded the trial version and I have been able
    to successfully convert .avi files. I'm rendering Microsoft DV .avi files
    from the Premiere timeline, and then converting those to mpg2 with TMPGEnc.
    Those files do not have any dropped frames, and my HP DVD writer authoring
    software will accept them. It's taking a *lot* longer than it would if I
    could simply import from mini-dv within the HP capture program, and let it
    convert to mpg2.

    HP may be right--it may be that I need a capture card that's compatible with
    their software. I'm waiting for one of their technicians to research my
    question as to what specific problems they encountered when using
    incompatible video capture cards. If it was dropped frames, then I probably
    need to buy a card from their approved card list. For now I'm on a limited
    budget and will put that expenditure off to another day.

    It would be nice if they made it clear that when you buy a DVD writer, you
    very well may have to spend as much again for an approved capture card.

    Other suggestions welcome.
    Steve S.
    Steve S., Nov 20, 2003
  8. Steve S.

    Samuel Paik Guest

    Are you attempting to encode to MPEG during capture?
    Samuel Paik, Nov 21, 2003
  9. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    That appears to be the only option that the HP software gives me. A friend
    has suggested that my computer's CPU may not be fast enough to complete this
    operation. What the software appears to do, is to capture in a buffer in max
    20-minute increments, and then encode, but I couldn't swear to it. Perhaps
    if I could find different capture software?

    I am able to convert existing .avi files to mpg2 using TMPGEnc, which I can
    then import into the HP authoring program. It's not wanting to write the
    finished project to disk in the final "produce disk" step, though, for
    reasons I'm still trying to troubleshoot.
    Steve S.
    Steve S., Nov 23, 2003
  10. Steve S.

    coolmercy Guest

    I'm running 98SE too using AVI_IO for capturing from a cheap TV-card
    and never meet any frame drops, not even after two hours of recording
    704x576 PAL stuff. But since you're doing DV capture I'm afraid there
    isn't much similarity between your specific settings and my set-up.

    All interventions you've been doing to reduce the problem seem fine by
    me. Did you also try to limit the amount of background programs?

    Like you said it may be a specific HP hard- or software thing.
    Inserting the DV-card into another slot may be an option to avoid
    IRQ's running into each other. I don't know, just an idea...

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands

    mailto:[email protected]
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    coolmercy, Nov 23, 2003
  11. Steve S.

    Samuel Paik Guest

    It sounds like it is capturing in 2GB chunks and then encoding then.
    Windows 98 imposes a 2GB limit on a file, so capture software has
    to do something.
    Scenalyzer Live: <http://www.scenalyzer.com/>
    Oddness. For low end authoring, I'd suggest Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2
    (which I use) and DVD-lab (which I haven't tried yet but seems to be
    getting a number of positive remarks).

    Ulead: <http://www.ulead.com/>
    DVD-lab: <http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/>

    Samuel Paik, Nov 24, 2003
  12. Steve S.

    Bariloche Guest

    May I ask which card? I am after such a capable card. For the moment
    being, my choice is with a Sapphire All-In-Wonder 9000, at 159 euros.
    Bariloche, Nov 24, 2003
  13. Steve S.

    coolmercy Guest

    Just a Hauppauge WinTV Go. 60 or so euros. The cable signal is running
    through my VCR which is connected to the tv-card. The VCR also
    supplies my soundcard with stereo sound because the Haup card is mono.
    Don't use the capture and tuning software that comes with the card.
    It's limited and lousy.
    Some say it's recommended to use the btwincap driver
    but I never succeeded in getting this driver installed despite several
    attempts, not even after a fresh Win98 install. Currently I'm using
    the latest driver from Hauppauge.

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands

    mailto:[email protected]
    change dot for .
    change 66 for 55
    coolmercy, Nov 24, 2003
  14. Steve S.

    Steve S. Guest

    Thanks for the capturing software recommendations, I'll check them out.

    I did find why the HP "ArcSoft" program wouldn't complete the task of
    writing the disk. There was audio on one clip it didn't like. When I
    re-captured and converted that clip (to Microsoft DV .avi and then to MPG2),
    it completed writing the entire DVD.

    Thanks again for your suggestions,
    Steve S.
    Steve S., Nov 24, 2003
  15. Steve S.

    Samuel Paik Guest

    Good job on finding out the true reason.

    BTW, ArcSoft is the name of a software company, they have video and
    photo editing products that are often bundled with various manufacturer's


    At a guess, you've got an OEM version of ShowBiz DVD.

    Samuel Paik, Nov 25, 2003
  16. Steve S.

    Bariloche Guest

    Thanks! My interest is in capturing AVI, then encoding through
    Tmpgenc, but all I have read before said it can only capture at half
    388x284, not the full PAL resolution.
    Bariloche, Nov 25, 2003
  17. Steve S.

    coolmercy Guest

    It certainly does full PAL res but like I said you better use another
    capture app like AVI_IO or VirtualDub...

    Peter van der Sluis
    Pijnacker, The Netherlands

    mailto:[email protected]
    change dot for .
    change 66 for 55
    coolmercy, Nov 26, 2003
  18. :>>Just a Hauppauge WinTV Go. 60 or so euros.
    : It certainly does full PAL res but like I said you better use another
    : capture app like AVI_IO or VirtualDub...

    I'd suggest LifeView FlyVideo 3000 series rather than Hauppage WinTV. I have
    both, but Philips based card (which is LifeView) gives much better and sharper
    image quality than anything Conexant based cards can offer. Especially for
    PAL and SECAM.

    Leonid Makarovsky, Dec 4, 2003
  19. Steve S.

    Bariloche Guest

    I don't know how this works in other countries, but in Spain people
    prefer the Conexants because they can be used to get for free encoded
    TV channels.
    Bariloche, Dec 4, 2003
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