dropping video frames problem

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Brian, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I have a problem when transferring my VHS tape analog recordings to the
    notebook computer using Dazzler connected to the USB port of the notebook I
    found that I was losing frames. A frame is lost at different times
    sometimes every 30 seconds, somethings longer or less than 30 seconds.
    I have tried turning off the WiFi, Norton's antivirus, and other problems
    running in the background. I have also tried. connecting Dazzler to a usb
    2 and a usb 3 port.
    After recording 30 minutes of video I had lost 190 frames. I don't have
    this problem with the desktop computer.

    Have others had this problem when recording video from a notebook computer?
    Can you suggest something I could try to try and fix this problem please.

    I thought it might be something interrupting the flow of the signal but it
    does not seem to happen at regular intervals. If I try to record the same
    VHS tape then the dropped frames don't occur at the same times.
    I am using Pinnacle studio 14 that came with Dazzler.

    Any replies would be very welcome.
    Brian, Nov 25, 2013
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  2. Brian

    Brian Guest

    One other difference is my notebook is using Windows 8 and the desktop is
    using windows 7.
    I contacted Toshiba, the manufacture of my notebook, and they suggested
    that I might need to upgrade my Pinnacle program as it may not be
    completely compatible with Windows 8. I'll try and contact Pinnacle as they
    might tell me that Pinnacle Studio 14 is not compatible with Windows 8. I'm
    hoping its not the hardware thats not compatible with Windows 8.

    However if anyone can suggest something else thats worth trying then that
    would be grest.
    Brian, Nov 25, 2013
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  3. Brian

    j Guest

    Probably a buffer problem. Hard drives can recalibrate from time to time
    and you may be falling in the cracks. At least that used to be the
    problem when I was converting analog video, times and technology change.

    j, Nov 25, 2013
  4. Brian

    Paul Guest

    The 25-words-or-less, is use the platform that works.


    With certain hardware paths, video capture will always
    be problematic. And a pragmatic user will just latch
    onto the working configuration and use that. That's what
    I do with my capture card.

    It's possible you could run the capture device under
    Linux, but this page doesn't give the impression
    everything is nicely fitted (kernel driver). I
    tried to trace the latest Pinnacle USB hardware,
    and it might be this chip. But without your hardware
    model details (DVC130 or DVC170?), it's hard to say
    for sure whether this is the path to follow. The Go7007
    appears to be a USB compression chip, for reducing the
    bitrate on the USB cable before moving the video to
    your computer.



    The following third-party applications are known to
    support GO7007-based devices under Linux:

    * MythTV (TV timeshifting application)

    I've had trouble before, getting the ten foot interface
    of MythTV set up, so that wouldn't be my favorite way to
    waste a week of discretionary time. I'd just go back
    to the working Windows platform and do my capture.


    I used to drop frames in Windows, and the problem was
    with the NTFS file system. It's probably a filter
    driver installed on my particular computer. Another user,
    with different software loaded than me, might not
    see those dropped frames.

    Which is why you don't fight this stuff - just get
    it working on one box, and do all your capturing

    Paul, Nov 25, 2013
  5. Unless the Dazzler is a USB3 device and the cable used is a USB3 cable,
    that won't make any difference.

    USB3 runs at the lowest speed of the three: the computer port, the
    device, and the cable. Unless all three are USB3, you will get USB2

    I'm assuming nothing there is USB1 :)
    Gene E. Bloch, Nov 25, 2013
  6. Brian

    Brian Guest

    If it is a buffer problem then can something be done?
    Brian, Nov 26, 2013
  7. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Dazzler is designed to work on USB 2.0
    I'm surprised that an external blu-ray recorder is able to work on USB 2.0
    as I thought it would need a faster flow of data.
    Brian, Nov 26, 2013
  8. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks Paul.

    My Dazzler is a DVC100.
    The reason I wanted to use Dazzler on my notebook was to take the load off
    my desktop computer so I could do other tasks without being held up.
    If it dropped one frame every 30 seconds then it may not be noticeable on
    playback but dropping 170 frame in 30 minutes seems more of a problem.
    I have also asked on the Pinnacle forum in hope of a reply.
    I thought that it might be Windows 8 causing some problem but I suspect it
    either works or does not work at all when it comes to different operating

    Some things I'm going to might in finding the problem is to record using
    the DV format rather than use MPEG. Also I'll try turning off the preview
    of the video thats displayed while its being recorded.

    I wish there was some software that would tell me exactly what is happening
    when using Dazzler.
    Brian, Nov 26, 2013
  9. Brian

    Paul Guest

    Developers use a USB "bus analyser" when they want to know what
    is going on. One of those might cost around $1500.00
    to purchase.

    As users, we're not supposed to know what's going on :)
    That's why there is no log of USB packet arrivals and

    The driver for the DVC100 seems to be the same software
    package. So it's possible the chip is the same as the
    DVC130/DVC170. And then, there may be a means to capture
    while running a Linux LiveCD on the laptop.


    Rather than waste time, use the platform that doesn't drop frames.
    For me, that can be achieved by avoiding long captures on
    the OS here that has the filter driver installed. (As I
    don't really want to uninstall it.) I think if I'm booted
    into Windows 8, the captures are OK. And that's because
    Windows 8 doesn't have all my software installed :)

    Paul, Nov 26, 2013
  10. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks Paul.

    It was suggested by someone from the Pinnacle forum that I try writing to
    an external hard drive when catching video using Dazzler. It might be
    something to do with the hard drives buffer. Anyway worth a try.
    Brian, Nov 27, 2013
  11. Brian

    Paul Guest

    I wouldn't expect it to be better, but you can certainly try it.

    If I was trying to get my money's worth out of that capture
    device, I'd probably try to test under Linux control. Just
    to see if the Linux driver for the hardware, is any smoother.
    It's a lot of work to set up, but it's what I'd try.

    Also, turning off the preview function, prevents CPU overload
    from the preview, from affecting other processes. One of my
    earliest capture setups was like that. You could view the
    captures first, to see everything was working OK. But if
    you wanted a quality capture, you had to turn off the
    preview function, because it just ate up too many resources.
    This is back when processors weren't running at 3GHz. My
    setup now, I can watch at the same time as it captures,
    and there is still some CPU left over.

    Paul, Nov 27, 2013
  12. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi Paul.

    I don't know much about Linux but I'll try some of the other things you
    wrote about.
    I worst thing about hardware such as computers is that you don't get to try
    it out before you buy it. Some shops had a right of return within 14 days
    of purchase but they found that people took advantage of this offer and
    used goods are more difficult to sell so they stopped this offer.

    I'll let you know if I have any success.
    Brian, Nov 27, 2013
  13. Brian

    Brian Guest

    No luck so far Paul.

    I tried connecting an external hard drive.
    There is no way of turning off the monitor windows in Pinnacle studio.
    I tried recording in DV
    Its either a hardware or software fault. I don't think its a problem with
    Windows 8.0 else there would be more people on the Pinnacle forum wanting
    to fix the problem.

    When playing back the recorded video I can't see any sudden jumps in the
    video but I think I need to test it on a fast action video. I thought that
    maybe I was getting a false indication of dropped frames but it always
    drops 5 frames at the start of the recording.

    I might do some research on what causes dropped frames.
    I'm wondering if the recorder repeats that last good frame when it gets a
    dropped frame or just does not record the dropped frame. Would the sound go
    out of sync with the video if frames are dropped?

    I think I need to record 30 minutes of Dazzler which would cause approx 170
    frames to be dropped then play it back and find out what effect it has had
    on the recording.
    Brian, Nov 29, 2013
  14. Brian

    j Guest

    It's been a while since I captured analog, but my memory is that the
    sound will stay synced. It is typically a separate capture.

    I captured on some marginal hardware (this was years ago) and the
    horsepower was jut not there yet. It's my memory that the frame rate
    drops, you may or may not see it.

    I'm with Paul on using what works. Analog capture is a pain, not worth
    fighting if you have success on a different setup. I probably went
    through over a half dozen video capture devices, they each had their
    special issues, digital is so much easier.

    What is the capture output? Is it mjpeg? What size are the captures per

    j, Dec 1, 2013
  15. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi Jeff.

    The capture output is mpg.
    The size of 1 minute of video capture is 31.1 MB with Dallas set to a video
    bit rate of 4Mbps.

    I have recorded an hour of video of some nature documentary with about 70
    dropped frames. I'm going to play it back and check for any problems. As I
    don't get a continuous group of frames dropped at any stage I may not
    notice any problems in the recorded video. My last test will be to record
    some fast action video. I might narrow the cause by noting the time when a
    frame is dropped.

    Its interesting to know that others have had dropped frame problems as I
    didn't know it was such a common problem. The only other time I had frames
    dropped was when recording to a drive that had gone to sleep. When the
    drives buffer had filled up with some of the video recording the time it
    took the drive to reach full speed was when frames were dropped.

    One of the reasons I brought a fast notebook computer was to transfer some
    of my old VHS recording to video files. I wanted to carry on using my
    desktop computer while the notebook did its task.
    Brian, Dec 2, 2013
  16. Likely a more reliable method for digitizing analogue
    video (with sound) is with something like the old Sony
    DA-1 analogue-to-digital/digital-to-analogue converter
    box (or the similar converter included in some Sony
    Mini-DV camcorders), likely available cheap used (I
    have a DA-1 to sell, but it is NTSC...). This works
    well, with no dropped frames, even on old, slow
    computers since the "work" is done in the hardware...
    The output is Mini-DV (DV-AVI, MPEG2).
    David Ruether, Dec 2, 2013
  17. Brian

    Paul Guest

    I suspect Brian's device isn't that bad. It has a
    compression chip at the USB interface, so the datarate
    really shouldn't be all that high. You could likely run
    multiple of those capture devices, and have USB2 bandwidth
    left over. Just a guess.

    Some of these designs are modular. The front end can be
    replaced with whatever is the cheapest, or whatever offers
    the best conversion quality. The compression chip is
    "all-digital" and doesn't actually do any of the capturing.
    The chips on the left do the analog to digital conversion,
    and have the converters inside them.

    --- Video conversion --------- parallel ------ compression --- USB2
    chip (SAxxxx Philips) digital bus +-- chip
    --- AC97 audio --------------- serial bus --+

    What dooms a lot of decent hardware setups, is
    bad drivers or bad capture utilities that talk
    to the drivers. In which case, changing software,
    locating other software to do the job, is worth
    a test.

    Paul, Dec 2, 2013
  18. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Its not Dazzler that is a problem as its working on my desktop computer
    with no dropped frames.
    Brian, Dec 3, 2013
  19. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi Paul.

    Soon after I brought Pinnacle Dazzler I tried other video editing software
    but found that not many other programs will work with Dazzler. I might try
    and find out which ones did work and use one of them on the Notebook to try
    and solve the dropped frames problem. Pinnacle have recently released
    version 17 of their pinnacle studio program so I might be able to use
    Dazzler with it and try a trail version.
    Brian, Dec 3, 2013
  20. Brian

    j Guest

    Those rates are pretty modest, I don't think it is a hardware issue.

    Try turning on the performance monitor on your OS and see if anything is
    maxing out. Maybe you have something eating CPU cycles.

    A quick Google search yielded results for Dazzle dropped frames, so,
    apparently you are not alone.

    j, Dec 4, 2013
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