DSLR choices?? help please

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Stormlady, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Stormlady

    Stormlady Guest

    So I'm in the market now for a DSLR and I jsut don't know what to do. We're
    definately getting either a Canon or a Nikon. We were looking at the D70s
    and the 20D primarily. Then Nikon goes and announces the D80 and Canon
    stops making the 20D so that kinda threw us for a loop and altered our
    choices somewhat. The 30 D I'm fairly sure is out of our price range, but
    should I really count out the 20D because it's been discontinued?

    We're planning to go to the camera shop tonight and would like to have some
    idea what we're after. Is there any real difference between the CCD and
    CMOS sensors, I believe Canon uses one while Nikon uses the other. Is it
    worth waiting for the D80 over the D70s?

    Right now we're just taking general pictures, some scenery, a lot of our
    daughter (of course). This would be our 3rd camera in 17 months so we would
    like to get one we're going to be happy with.

    That will leave us with a Nikon cp5600 and a Kodak P850, which would be
    better to keep for situations were a DSLR is not really practical, or just
    sell both because we'll never use them again?
     
    Stormlady, Aug 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. Stormlady

    Bill Guest

    What is it about DSLR that makes you want one?
    If you can find the 20D, there's nothing wrong with it. Get it and save
    some money.

    Have you considered the Nikon D50? It's a great camera with plenty of
    features, and image quality is as good as the others. It costs a fair
    bit less than the others mentioned too. The price difference could be
    used to invest in better lenses.
    They work slightly different, but they do the same thing. More important
    are things like features and performance.
    That depends on your needs, but generally I think for the price the D80
    will be a fairly solid choice over the D70s.

    But we have to see it on the store shelves first.
    What do you do with the images?

    Do you make large poster-sized prints?

    Will you be buying 2-3 lenses, or just use one lense?
    I'd keep one of them for social functions where you don't want to drag
    around the DSLR. I have a small 3mp P&S that I keep for BBQs, parties
    and so forth. If you're having a few drinks, you don't want anyone to
    drop a $1000+ camera/lense combo! ACK!

    :-(
     
    Bill, Aug 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. Stormlady

    Ben Thomas Guest

    I'm very happy with my D70 - the D80 will have more resolution IINM
    which is great if you want to print bigger than A4 (~8.5"x11") or
    absolutely must have the highest possible resolution at A4 size. The are
    other reasons but for scenery or family photos I don't think you need
    the extra resolution.

    I had a Kodak DX6490 (4MP 10x zoom) for 12 months before upgrading to
    the Nikon D70 for the reasons below.

    The main advantages of a DSLR are:
    - shallow depth of field is achievable so portraits are much more attractive
    - shutter lag is non-existent.
    - the lenses are sensors are bigger so you get less noise and sharper
    pictures

    May I ask why you are not satisfied with the Kodak P850?

    Ben
     
    Ben Thomas, Aug 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Stormlady

    ASAAR Guest

    Is the 30D really that much more expensive than the 20D? Most of
    the comments I've seen indicated that it was only a slight upgrade
    and even Canon fans seem to agree that unless they've been sorely
    dissatisfied with the 20D's lack of a spot meter, upgrading the 20D
    to a 30D probably isn't justified. On the other hand, if the choice
    was to be between a 20D and a 30D, the preference swings more toward
    the 30D. But this preference was far from unanimous, and depended
    on whether the 30D's additional features were justified despite its
    higher cost. Don't automatically rule out the 20D. There are
    in-depth reviews of the 30D that compare it with the 20D, and one
    good one is dpreview's. Don't rely too heavily on newsgroup
    opinions (mine included). It's better to compare features and
    prices and make your own decision. Note that the link below points
    to only the first of the review's 30 pages.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d/

    Not enough of a difference to worry about. As for the D80, I've
    only seen some previews, but they've been much more extensive than
    most previews generally are. The consensus is that the D80 offers
    significant improvements in many areas and should be well worth
    waiting for. As with the 30D review, the preview offers some
    comparisons of the D80 with its sibling, the D70.

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond80/

    I've never sold old cameras. They either are used infrequently,
    mostly gathering dust, or become gifts. I tried to give an old
    Canon Powershot to a niece only to discover that she just received a
    camera as a Christmas gift. Her mother became the happy owner of
    the Powershot. :)

    My choice would be to sell no more than one of the other cameras.
    In addition to the smaller P&S cameras being more convenient to use
    under some circumstances, they can be useful backups if something
    unfortunate happens to the DSLR and you don't have enough time to
    get it repaired or replaced, or if you need the use of more than one
    camera for some reason.
     
    ASAAR, Aug 23, 2006
    #4
  5. Stormlady

    Stormlady Guest

    The Kodak is not a bad little camera, it's just that there are things that
    we try to do with it that we just can't. Macro being a big one for me, it
    just doesn't get close enough to the subject sometimes. My boyfriend is
    unhappy with the results he gets when he tries to take clouds/sunsets, they
    just don't look as crisp as we would like. And of course the shutter delay.
     
    Stormlady, Aug 23, 2006
    #5
  6. The whole "experience" of using a DSLR is totally different frfom a P&S
    camera:

    No more fiddling around with complex menus to get it to do what you want -
    controls are at your fingertips. (WB, ISO, metering mode etc)
    Being able to set aperture or shutter speed while looking through the
    viewfinder.
    Not having to hold the thing at arms's length looking at a grainy LCD
    "preview"
    No more fiddling with a useless "zoom button" - you actually get to control
    the zoom via a zoom ring.
    You get a proper "click" when you take the photo, rather than with a P&S
    when you are never really sure when it has actually taken the shot!

    Cheers - Adrian www.boliston.co.uk
     
    Adrian Boliston, Aug 23, 2006
    #6
  7. Stormlady

    Stormlady Guest

    We've gone to look at them locally, and there does seem to be a bit of a
    difference in price, around $400-500 if I recall correctly, that is enought
    right now to put it effectively out of our range.

    <snip>
     
    Stormlady, Aug 23, 2006
    #7
  8. Adrian Boliston wrote:
    []
    Adrian,

    You should try one of the ZLR cameras - you can set the shutter speed etc.
    while looking through the EVF, and the camera doesn't need to be held away
    from the body. Having a loud "clunk" noise when you take a picture isn't
    always an advantage!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Stormlady

    ASAAR Guest

    And with the ZLR you often are able to select different noises or
    disable them completely. Some digital P&S cameras, such as Ricoh's
    moderately expensive GR Digital can have short enough delays (Half
    to Full-press Lag using external viewfinder of ~0.03 sec.) and even
    No Press to Full-press Lag can be very short (0.2 sec) if the camera
    is used in Snap Mode which uses fixed focus, so there's no AF delay.
     
    ASAAR, Aug 24, 2006
    #9
  10. There was a zlr the salesman showed me when I was buying my D70s (a
    panasonic i think) but it didn't have the erganomic "feel" that the Nikon
    had, yet it was almost as expensive! Also it has not got the flexability
    of swapping lenses. Also an EVF can never match a true optical viewfinder
     
    Adrian Boliston, Aug 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Stormlady

    ASAAR Guest

    True. Some people actually prefer seeing less than 100% of what
    will be captured by the sensor as well as the preferring the
    parallax error that can make macro shooting so much fun! :)
     
    ASAAR, Aug 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Adrian Boliston wrote:
    []
    You mean you can get the D70S for about GBP 250? - I hadn't realised they
    were that strongly discounted! <G>

    Something like the compact Panasonic FZ5 (weighing about 300g) would
    probably be a nice complementary camera when you don't want to risk the
    D70S. No dust when not swapping lenses, as well!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 24, 2006
    #12
  13. As I recall, "ZLR" was the term coined by Olympus several years ago to mean
    its non-interchangeable zoom-lens 35mm SLRs. But you're using it to mean the
    more advanced "SLR-like" digital cameras, right?

    If this is a new usage, I do like it a lot better than "P&S" for such
    cameras -- which is terribly inappropriate.

    Neil
     
    Neil Harrington, Aug 24, 2006
    #13
  14. Neil Harrington wrote:
    []
    Yes, Neil. There was a discussion some time ago, when the split of
    rec.photo.digital was being considered, as to what to call 'more advanced
    "SLR-like" digital cameras', and ZLR won the day. Things have blurred
    even more since then, with many of the entry-level DSLRs offering P&S
    features like scene modes, EVF, built-in flash etc. etc.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 24, 2006
    #14
  15. Ah. Fair enough. Technically wrong (the "R" part) but it's sure better than
    the other.

    How can even an entry-level dSLR have an EVF? What camera, for instance?
    (Mostly I only follow Nikons and Minoltas [Sony] and don't know much about
    the others.)

    As for built-in flash, I don't see that as a "P&S feature." Every 35mm SLR I
    bought after the Minolta 8000i has a built-in flash, as do my Maxxum 5D and
    Nikon D70s of course. These are certainly not P&S cameras.

    As for scene modes, sure they're on P&S models, but Minolta SLR 35s have
    used them for several years too, so I wouldn't necessarily call that a "P&S
    feature."

    The whole idea behind the "point and shoot" term originally was that that
    was just about all you could do with such a camera. No controls, no
    settings, no adjustments except for a few on-off things having to do with
    flash and self-timer. This seems to have been lost in the current popular
    misusage of "P&S."

    Neil
     
    Neil Harrington, Aug 24, 2006
    #15
  16. When I purchased my D70s it was a shared purchase for my partner and myself,
    but we soon found sharing a camera did not really "work". It was annoying
    to constantly have to ask each other to "give me the camera" each time you
    see a good shot and the other one has the camera! Photography is a lot
    about spontenaety and sharing a camera prevents this.
     
    Adrian Boliston, Aug 25, 2006
    #16
  17. I'm not sure I'd want the equivalent of *just* an 80mm lens unless I was an
    avid portrait photographer who never really did other types of photography!
     
    Adrian Boliston, Aug 25, 2006
    #17
  18. Stormlady

    Stormlady Guest

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Stewy" <>
    Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
    Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:02 PM
    Subject: Re: DSLR choices?? help please

    We have, but having never used a dSLR before, we don't really know what
    we're looking for in terms of "feel"
    Absolutely! We already have a Kodak P850 which has some manual control,
    good zoom, but just can't do everything we want it to do.
    See above about the Kodak.
    we have a cp5600, if that was what we wanted, we wouldn't have bought the
    Kodak.
    We will be going on some trips where photography is the main point, yes.
    Not huge trips, but we will be going for walks/drives with the express
    purpose of taking pictures.

    He is not sure either, that is why I asked for opinions. He wants either a
    Canon or a Nikon too, but is just not sure. I'm certainly not "dragging"
    him along. As a matter of fact, photography was my hobby when I bought the
    P850, but then he began to like having some control over his pictures and
    got into it too. The money to buy a dSLR came from him, and his parents
    lottery winnings.
    We've done that too, but it still leaves unsure which camera to get.
     
    Stormlady, Aug 25, 2006
    #18
  19. Lottery winnings? Ask to have a look and feel of a D2Xs or D2Hs complete
    with 12-24 F4, 17-55 F2.8 & 70-200 2.8 VR :)
     
    Adrian Boliston, Aug 25, 2006
    #19
  20. Stormlady

    Stormlady Guest

    Not quite that much lottery winnings for us, unfortunately.
     
    Stormlady, Aug 25, 2006
    #20
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