dslr features , or lack thereof

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by rufus, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. rufus

    rufus Guest

    I was about to purchase a Konica Minolta 5D, but backed out because of
    the recent demise of K/M.

    The thing that surprised me was that as I changed the aperture or
    shutter speed there is no way the camera indicates what the results
    will be , like on my prosumer camera. I was surprised at this.

    Also a question about image stabilization: I assume that if I were to
    use a tripod for my zoom shots the stabilization would not be a factor.
    Am I over-simplifying? As you can tell, I'm certainly not an expert
    at all this, just trying to make my way through all the information
    I've been reading.

    I'd really like to get a Fuji dslr because I've heard that that
    particular camera handles low light best of all.

    Anyone care to comment on these issues?

    thanks a lot
    rufus, Mar 22, 2006
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  2. Are you talking about the lack of live preview? That's been
    extensively discussed, but briefly, the two problems are that there's
    a mirror and shutter between the lens and the sensor at that point in
    the cycle, and the sensors used in DSLRs get considerable of their
    good qualities from not having to contain the circuitry for video
    readout, and from being kept in the dark up until the actual photo is
    being taken.
    That's essentially true -- except that in some older lenses you
    apparently *have to* turn off the IS manually in that situation.
    I've found my S2 very good in low light situations, but I don't think
    it's better than something like a Nikon D2H. I'm planning to put it
    up on Ebay tonight, by the way -- I bought a Nikon D200 last Friday.
    You might want to seriously consider the D200, it has a really
    outstanding price for a camera of it's specs.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Mar 22, 2006
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  3. rufus

    rufus Guest

    You wrote:

    Are you talking about the lack of live preview? That's been
    extensively discussed, but briefly, the two problems are that there's
    a mirror and shutter between the lens and the sensor at that point in
    the cycle, and the sensors used in DSLRs get considerable of their
    good qualities from not having to contain the circuitry for video
    readout, and from being kept in the dark up until the actual photo is
    being taken.


    I didn't mean the preview on the LCD. I was referring to the fact that
    when I adjust the aperture or shutter speed on my "prosumer" cam I can
    see a change in the lighting as I alter the settings.

    I might not be making myself clear. I'm just pretty sure I won't be
    buying a dslr because the lens I need to get my dance recital pictures
    is too cost prohibitive. ;(
    rufus, Mar 22, 2006
  4. rufus

    l e o Guest

    However, from what you say, it does imply you're asking about "live
    preview." And how far would you be from the stage? I don't know about
    K-M, but you can get a Canon 100mm f/2 or 85mm f/1.8 for less than $400
    which isn't that much for important projects. In addition, you can jack
    the ISO up to 800 (and even 1600) with no objectionable noise.

    Or you can find a P&S with f/2.8 lens but realistically only be able to
    use ISO 100 or 200.

    Your choice!
    l e o, Mar 22, 2006
  5. rufus

    tomm42 Guest

    Are you saying that you can see the change in the viewfinder? That I
    assume is with an electronic viewfinder. Most DSLRs have a read out as
    you are viewing that shows where you are with exposure, set on
    automatic modes you can see the shutterspeed and aperture, and
    sometimes the ISO you are set on. As for the viewfinder getting dimmer
    or brighter as you set the shutter and iris, don't know why you would
    want that. The result is what counts. Modern SLRs keep the aperture as
    wide as possible to give you the best view, then shut down the iris to
    take the photo. If you want to check depth of field, most DSLRs have
    that feature, sometimes a button sometimes a menu.
    What lens do you want? There are brands other than K/M, second hand
    camera stores, and Ebay.

    tomm42, Mar 22, 2006
  6. I didn't mean the preview on the LCD. I was referring to the fact
    If you are seeing a change in the lighting, that's almost certainly on
    an LCD, or at least, an electronic viewfinder. Which is to say, you
    *are* talking about live preview. The only other place where you could
    be looking would be through an optical viewfinder, but would not change
    in response to a change in shutter speed, so I am almost positive you
    are not talking about an optical viewfinder.

    A change in aperture would be reflected in a DSLR viewfinder if you do a
    "depth of field preview", although it wouldn't really be showing you
    what the exposure will look like, because it still isn't reflecting the
    shutter speed. It will just be showing the brightest image it can with
    the selected aperture, which for smaller apertures is almost certainly
    still going be dimmer than the actual picture, unless you have
    deliberately (or accidentally) chosen too fast a shutter speed. The
    purpose of the DOF preview isn't to tell you anything about exposure,
    but rather, as the name implies, to give you an idea of the depth of
    field - so you can see will be in focus and what won't (since this
    changes with aperture).

    To get feedback on exposure with a DSLR, you don't depend on a live
    preview of any sort. You use the feedback the camera gives you in EV
    terms - the numbers tht display in the viewfinder that tell you how much
    your image will be over or underexposured according to the camera's
    metering system. With some practice, you can learn to interpret these
    as well an EVF or LCD image. But when in doubt, you can always snap a
    picture then look at it on the LCD to see if you like the exposure.
    I don't know if you are thinking in terms of getting one lens to do
    everything - something like the 12X zooms with constant 2.8 aperture you
    might see on a Panasonic P&S, for example. Actually, you wouldn't be
    able to find anything like that for a DSLR, so cost wouldn't be the only
    problem. You will need several lenses to get the same versatility as
    your P&S. But if you're assuming you'd need an aperture of 2.8 just
    because that's what you need on your P&S, you should also question that
    assumption. Most likely, the P&S is only dealing with ISO 400, but most
    DSLR's can handle ISO 1600 or even beyond. A DSLR at ISO 1600 would
    allow the same shutter speeds with an aperture of 5.6 as a P&S at ISO
    400 would with an aperture of 2.8. Yet the DSLR will have the advantage
    of having faster focus and perhaps greater DOF because of the smaller
    aperture (depending on the difference in sensor size, I guess), and it
    will probably perform better at ISO 1600 than your P&S does at 400.
    Meaning you'd likely get a sharper and less noisy image with a $150 zoom
    on a DSLR than with the admittedly very nice lenses that come with some
    P&S cameras.

    Marc Sabatella

    Music, art, & educational materials
    Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
    Marc Sabatella, Mar 22, 2006
  7. rufus

    ian lincoln Guest

    Okay i'll have a crack at this.

    most if not all dslrs and film cameras before them would show you what
    aperture would be automatically selected according to the shutterspeed you
    had chosen and vice versa. There is also 'program shift' where both shutter
    and aperture are selected for you but you can turn a dial to change the
    combination. Many cameras have depth of field preview. So that you can see
    what the view will be when the aperture you have selected. This is
    typically darker and with a greater depth of field.

    All SLR's and DSLRs will indicate whether your chosen settings will produce
    a correctly exposed image. either the aperture or shutter will flash to say
    they are not fast or slow enough in order to get the exposure. Once shot
    the canon series cameras fill in burnt out highlights with flashing black
    marks to indicate they will be over exposed. There is also a histogram to
    show you how the shot was exposed. Considering how fast the reaction time
    of DSLRS and how quickly successive shots can be taken and usually far more
    in a burst than a prosumer machine you will be able to produce an acceptable

    As far as fuji cameras and the s3 pro in particular they claim to have a
    wider dynamic range that is to say the difference from the dark parts and
    the bright parts can be more extreme. This is because fuji pair up high and
    low sensitivity sensors to cover the whole spectrum. As for low light
    sensitivity i'd vote canon. low light usually means faster isos which mean
    more noise. Canon are the lowest noise cameras. I haven't had a problem
    with dynamic range either. It may be more of an issue in compact cameras.

    Now for image stabilisation. This is mostly for handheld work in low light
    or for working with extremely long lenses in low light. If you plan to use
    a tripod alot this is not an issue.

    All in all KM are underated and the IS built in to the body will save
    certain users a fortune. The sensor they use is just as good as sony,
    nikon. They are all made by sony. Only canon make their own.

    As for the recent demise of KM that'll probably lower the cost of the
    bodies. Long term warranty and spares will be honoured and sony has bought
    many of the technology patents especially the lense mount. So not to worry
    lenses will be cheap and plentiful as all but hardened devotees to KM will
    panic and trade in their gear.
    ian lincoln, Mar 23, 2006
  8. Yep, that's the live preview. The image on the LCD is taken through
    the lens and camera sensor; hence control adjustments show in some
    ways. On the DSLR, you're looking directly through the lens, and they
    go to considerable trouble to keep the lens at maximum aperture while
    you're viewing, to keep the viewfinder as bright as possible.
    I wouldn't imagine you could get much in that kind of environment with
    anything *else*; too much motion.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Mar 23, 2006
  9. rufus

    tlai909 Guest

    As far as I know, many basic cameras have a depth of field button...
    eg. D70, 350D and the Pentax D series.

    The Nikon D50 does not.
    tlai909, Mar 24, 2006
  10. rufus

    Clark Martin Guest

    It might not be a factor if you are only shooting still scenes. Image
    stabilization will also work on moving objects. It will work on a
    tripod if the motion is smooth enough.

    I took a couple of shots in the early morning one day. The scene was a
    train crossing with a train passing by and the cars all stopped. In the
    first picture I held the camera steady. The train was blurred but
    everything else was sharp. In the second shot I panned the camera,
    following the train. In this case the train was sharp, everything else
    was blurred. It worked very well.
    Clark Martin, May 1, 2006
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