DSLR with wide dynamic range - Fuji S5 Pro only?

Discussion in 'Fuji' started by aniramca, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    Once I queried in these newsgroups about HDR feature that is directly
    built in a digital camera. One response indicated that HDR technique
    needs more computing memory and time to process, and therefore not
    efficient to be included as a process in the camera. Hence the
    availability of softwares such as Photomatix, PS CS2, etc to create
    such images.
    However, I recently heard about a Fuji Finepix S5 Pro DSLR which has
    became the wedding photographer's first choice camera, because of its
    wide dynamic range feature. I heard that you can adjust the dynamic
    range of the photos in 6 ranges from narrow to wide, or automatically
    choosing it for you. Is the technique similar to producing HDR images,
    and built into the camera? Or is this a different kind of dynamic
    range technique and images? Can anyone who own a S5 Pro share their
    experience here? Is Fuji S5 Pro the only one that has such a feature,
    or are other professional SLRs such as Nikon D1, Canon 1D or others
    also has such a feature? Thanks for info.
     
    aniramca, Nov 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. It's built into the camera, and sort of like a 2-image HDR.

    Each pixel consists of two pixels, a big one and a small one, and the small
    one is used to for bright parts of the image that would have blown out the
    big pixel.

    This means that the big pixels are somewhat smaller than what you'd get on a
    generic 6MP dSLR, so there's a cost. And no one who is technically competent
    has analysed that cost to my satisfaction. (That I've seen.) I have seen
    some images that looked as though it worked, though.

    Note that to use it, you have to shoot in raw, and record two values for
    each pixel, meaning that raw files are twice as large.
    Yes. It's unique to Fuji. They make the sensor.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. aniramca

    Trev Guest

    The Fuji sensors pixels are Hexagonal and the smaller ones fit in the
    spacebetween the botem left and right of 2 and top left and right of the
    lower two
    http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Fuji-Super-CCD-SR--HR-FAQ-1
     
    Trev, Nov 6, 2007
    #3
  4. aniramca

    bugbear Guest

    If you have shutter speed bracketing, and a "main" exposure of
    1/250, you should be able to get three shots (+- 1 EV) off in around 1/80 second.

    Post processing does the rest, expanding your potential camera
    candidates.

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Nov 6, 2007
    #4
  5. I thought they were Octagonal.
    Hence the design of Fuji's SuperCCD logo.
     
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Nov 6, 2007
    #5
  6. aniramca

    Trev Guest

    YEP thats the word shape ect Excuse me for being an Idiot.
    I have not used it on my 9600 yet as the interpolarated 19mb raw put me off
     
    Trev, Nov 6, 2007
    #6
  7. I don't think I have it on my 5600.
    It has the SuperCCD, but I don't think it has the Wide Dynamic Range
    feature.
     
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Nov 6, 2007
    #7
  8. It's a good thing big CF cards are getting cheaper<g>.

    But you'd only need two exposures, +1 and -1, or even +2 and -2, I'd think.

    The only problem would be the time to read out and reset the sensor. I'd
    think that'd be more like 1/10 second than the essentially zero you are
    figuring. This might be something for Sony's new parallel A/D converter
    sensor.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 6, 2007
    #8
  9. aniramca

    The One Guest

    This feature has it drawbacks. You will lose more detail than you will gain
    by using the in camera HDR feature. This camera is fundamentally flawed and
    isn't necessarily a good choice for weddings, write speeds is too much of an
    issue for any professional wedding photographer as it is too slow. Overall
    image quality scores average on the numerous of tests and reviews out there,
    get the D200 which is the same body and is cheaper, and gives better results
    too.
     
    The One, Nov 6, 2007
    #9
  10. aniramca

    The One Guest

    off

    Yes and within that 19Mb RAW file you won't get as much detail as you
    expect. Gimmick it is.
     
    The One, Nov 6, 2007
    #10
  11. aniramca

    bugbear Guest

    A good point (sadly...)

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Nov 6, 2007
    #11
  12. aniramca

    Louis Ohland Guest

    Louis Ohland, Nov 6, 2007
    #12
  13. Because the HDR process needs a LOT of user input, I just do not think
    it would be practical to use it IN the camera.

    Besides, the appearance of HDR prints is weird, very flat, and look
    more like a painting than a photograph.

    Remember, printing paper only has a dynamic range of about 50:1, or
    between 5 and six stops. So any image with more range than that must
    be either reduced in contrast or printed with either shadow or
    highlight details lost. HDR processing uses the former scheme, and
    REALLY cranks down the contrast.
     
    Don Stauffer in Minnesota, Nov 6, 2007
    #13
  14. \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Nov 6, 2007
    #14
  15. aniramca

    The One Guest

    Hence the reason the S5 only scores average on image quality in most
    reviews. Its a gimmick which really doesn't work that well.
     
    The One, Nov 6, 2007
    #15
  16. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    Someone asked about the source of my statement that Fujifilm is
    popular with for wedding photographer. I got the information from a
    recent magazine (Popular Photography & Imaging) in the newstand - 2008
    Buyers guide (www.popphoto.com). There is a review article by Dan
    Richards about Fujifilm Pro S5.

    However, I also found numerous statements from camera reviews in the
    various websites. Here are some links:
    http://reviews.washingtonpost.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-S5-Pro.htm
    http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Fujifilm-FinePix-S5-Pro-Digital-Camera-Review.htm
    http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_fujifilm_s5_pro.php
    http://www.onlineweddings.co.uk/weddingdirectory/module/news/article.php?storyid=260
    If any of the above links is broken, just google and search for
    "Fujifilm Pro S5 for wedding photography.

    Some photographers enjoy the razor sharp pictures produced by Nikon
    and Canon cameras and their lenses. In particular, there appears to be
    very strong enthusiasts and followers who believe razor sharp pictures
    are the best in photography. I must agree in some cases, as I like to
    see sharp quality images. However, perhaps sharpness may not always be
    a good criteria for wedding photography. Perhaps they are looking for
    softness and high dynamic range photos.... hence their support for the
    S5. Can't all wedding photographers around the world be wrong? They
    must have found something which is dearly missed in other professional
    cameras. Could the supper CCD in Fujifilm digital camera be the
    answer?

    As a follow up, I seem to notice that a number of other cameras also
    have (or probably already have done so for a while - I do not follow
    things like this frequently) similar options/settings in the camera's
    feature for high dynamic range images. I noticed that the Sony A-100
    DSLR has the D-range optimizer function, the new Canon 40D has the
    Highlight Tone Priority, and the new Nikon D300 has the D-lighting
    extender. So, after all Fujifilm may be in the right direction after
    all. My original question was whether Nikon and Canon's top of the
    line professional cameras - the D1 and 1D have already had this
    feature. Perhaps someone who uses this camera can provide this info.
    Thanks.
     
    aniramca, Nov 12, 2007
    #16
  17. Probably not. It's only a 6MP camera, and quality wedding work has
    traditionally been done in medium format. Even with soft focus effects,
    there's still a lot of underlying detail with MF that 6MP simply isn't able
    to capture. (6MP is a tad shy of 35mm in detail capture.)

    Of course, there are a lot of couples that don't understand or don't care
    about image quality, and there are a lot of wedding pros who use 35mm to
    cater to that clientelle. But if the client wants quality formals, the S5
    won't hack it.

    Which brings up the other wedding camera: the 5D. With 8 or 9 stops* of
    dynamic range even at ISO 400, there really isn't a problem. And the image
    quality is comparable to 645.

    *: Count them yourself.
    http://www.pbase.com/davidjl/image/76131098/original
    http://www.pbase.com/davidjl/image/76131302/original

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 12, 2007
    #17
  18. aniramca

    The One Guest

    That old chessnut, you don't want sharp images, what if you DO. At least if
    you have sharp images you will always have sharp images and anything else in
    the way of effects can be done in PS.
     
    The One, Nov 29, 2007
    #18
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