DV Camcorder with DV In?

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by Tony H., Sep 24, 2006.

  1. Tony H.

    Tony H. Guest

    Hi, I am looking to buy a DV Camcorder to replace my trusty but now not
    functioning Sony TRV 10E. My main requirement is that the camcorder MUST
    have DV In enabled in order for me to send the finished tape (post editing
    on the PC) back to the camcorder. When I bought the original Sony in 1998, I
    also bought a widget which enabled the unit, but it doesn't look like you
    can do this with newer models?

    Any suggestions welcomed, JVC, Canon, Sony, Samsung, others, main priority
    is DV In facility, thanks in advance.

    Tony H.
     
    Tony H., Sep 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Tony H.

    Gaz Guest

    My Sony DCR-HC22E has a DV-In - from what I remember when researching to
    buy, all of the Sony DCR-HCxxE models from 22 upwards have DV-In. I was
    originally going for the HC18E, but paid a smidge extra for the 22 to
    get DV-In for archiving edited footage.
     
    Gaz, Sep 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. Tony H.

    G Hardy Guest

    I paid extra for DV in, and have only ever used it once in four years.
     
    G Hardy, Sep 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Tony H.

    G Hardy Guest

    I forgot about this one - yes I did use DV passthrough for preview for a
    short while. As soon as I started fretting about whether it might be causing
    wear and tear on the camera, I got a triplehead video card which outputs
    preview to S-Video...
    True, with the caveat that you may still get unnoticed interlacing problems
    if your video driver calculates the field order "on the fly" and adjusts
    accordingly during playback (as does the current Parhelia driver).
     
    G Hardy, Sep 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Tony H.

    Jukka Aho Guest

    I use it all the time, for real-time monitoring and previewing while
    editing. I.e. the camcorder is connected from its analogue video output
    terminals to a separate 15 kHz video monitor - or, in some cases, to an
    ordinary tv. In any remotely decent NLE, this will let you see the video
    in real time while you scrub on the timeline.

    There are several benefits to this approach. A computer monitor doesn't
    show the correct colours/gamma, and may let interlacing-related problems
    (such as a wrong field order) slip through unnoticed. Moreover, you get
    to see the video pixels in their correct aspect ratio - with no scaling
    or geometrical distortion. Also, despite the "safe area" guides on many
    programs, you get a better feel of how overscanned image _really_ looks
    like on a display that... well, actually overscans.

    Not only NLEs, but some DVD authoring packages, too, (at least Adobe
    Encore DVD) let you preview the menus and stills on a real television
    through a DV camcorder, which is also helpful.
     
    Jukka Aho, Sep 24, 2006
    #5
  6. Tony H.

    Jukka Aho Guest

    Since using the passthrough feature doesn't require rolling a tape in
    the camcorder, I have not been too concerned about it wearing anything
    out. (Admittedly, it might wear the viewfinder CRT a bit, since the
    viewfinder will be on even if you didn't monitor the picture that way.)
    Hmm... that might be a problem with "tv-out" style monitoring, when
    using an SVGA card, but I don't think the video driver is involved at
    all in DV-in pass-through monitoring.
     
    Jukka Aho, Sep 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Tony H.

    G Hardy Guest

    It's so long since I did it, I can't remember for sure, but I might have had
    to have a tape recording to stop the camera from powering off by itself.
    It's a Canon, if that makes any difference.

    It's definitely a problem with tv-out - if your driver tries to make an
    "intelligent" guess at the interlacing order. If something that should be
    upper-first comes through as lower-first, the driver changes the order by
    itself so you don't see the problem until it's too late (the DVD is burned,
    or whatever). You're right - using DV as passthrough (if you have DV-in)
    completely bypasses this problem.
     
    G Hardy, Sep 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Tony H.

    Jerry Guest

    What you get out of the DV port is what gets recorded, if the field
    order (or what ever) is wrong you will either notice it or it won't
    mater! 'TV-out' from a computer video card is just a NTSC or PAL
    version of what is on the screen, the field order will be correct
    even if the field order on the DV output is wrong, you are seeing
    only what the computer monitor is showing - IYSWIM.
     
    Jerry, Sep 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Tony H.

    Tony H. Guest

    Interesting discussion guys, any recommends to the original post? ;-)

    |
    | | > G Hardy wrote:
    | >
    | > >> I use it [DV-in / DV-to-analogue passthrough feature of the
    | > >> camcorder] all the time, for real-time monitoring and previewing
    | > >> while editing.
    | >
    | > > I forgot about this one - yes I did use DV passthrough for
    | preview
    | > > for a short while. As soon as I started fretting about whether it
    | > > might be causing wear and tear on the camera, I got a triplehead
    | > > video card which outputs preview to S-Video...
    | >
    | > Since using the passthrough feature doesn't require rolling a tape
    | in
    | > the camcorder, I have not been too concerned about it wearing
    | anything
    | > out. (Admittedly, it might wear the viewfinder CRT a bit, since the
    | > viewfinder will be on even if you didn't monitor the picture that
    | way.)
    | >
    | > >> There are several benefits to this approach. A computer
    | > >> monitor... may let interlacing-related problems
    | > >> (such as a wrong field order) slip through unnoticed.
    | >
    | > > True, with the caveat that you may still get unnoticed
    | interlacing
    | > > problems if your video driver calculates the field order "on the
    | fly"
    | > > and adjusts accordingly during playback (as does the current
    | Parhelia
    | > > driver).
    | >
    | > Hmm... that might be a problem with "tv-out" style monitoring, when
    | > using an SVGA card, but I don't think the video driver is involved
    | at
    | > all in DV-in pass-through monitoring.
    | >
    |
    | What you get out of the DV port is what gets recorded, if the field
    | order (or what ever) is wrong you will either notice it or it won't
    | mater! 'TV-out' from a computer video card is just a NTSC or PAL
    | version of what is on the screen, the field order will be correct
    | even if the field order on the DV output is wrong, you are seeing
    | only what the computer monitor is showing - IYSWIM.
    |
    |
     
    Tony H., Sep 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Tony H.

    Jukka Aho Guest

    Mine is a Sony. It doesn't power off if it is connected to the mains and
    set to the "VTR" (or "PLAYER") mode. Tape does not need to be present at
    all, but it doesn't matter if it is. I don't have much experience on
    Canons; perhaps they work in a different way.
     
    Jukka Aho, Sep 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Tony H.

    G Hardy Guest

    Woohoo - my very own net stalker! Just what I always wanted :eek:)

    Seriously, I'm glad that you think you're making a difference to the world.
    Unfortunately, you're mistaking me for someone who gives a shit. According
    to K9, 78% of the email I receive is spam. A bit more to
    isn't going to make any difference to me.
     
    G Hardy, Sep 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Tony H.

    Jerry Guest

    Are you saying that you own the above address or that you know no one
    else does, I didn't read the message from as meaning
    that you were just passing on your spam problem to a faceless address
    as he does - IOW, are you sure you are not passing your spam on to
    the real 'gareth.hardy1' ?...
     
    Jerry, Sep 25, 2006
    #12
  13. Tony H.

    G Hardy Guest

    To be honest, when I started using that munging address, I thought it was a
    pretty cool antispam measure. It would be pretty obvious to anyone really
    wanting to email me (can't think why) what email address they should be
    using, and it was much better than using the typical "someone at blah dot
    com" bollocks we usually see.

    Then someone goes and squats on the domain to ensnare people who can't
    spell, and our friend here thinks that it's reason enough to get all
    self-righteous about it. If he'd had the sense to go look for an MX record
    for the domain he would have realised that even if there was a "Gareth
    Hardy" working at ntlwrold, there's no means for him to get his email using
    that domain.

    I find it mildly amusing that he/she has seen fit to send a message berating
    me for my antispam measure that will propagate across thousands of mail
    servers and hundreds of PCs, when anyone trying to spam me will get tripped
    at the first hurdle - the MX lookup on their own DNS.

    Until he/she published my email address, that is. :eek:)
     
    G Hardy, Sep 25, 2006
    #13
  14. Tony H.

    Guest Guest

    Hi Gaz, thanks for the only sensible on-topic advice to my original mail. I
    chkd out the Sony's as suggested and whilst not all the higher models have
    the DV in facility, the HC-35E does and I got a steal from Amazon for 210.00
    delivered, so a good result.

    Thanks again for putting me on the right track.
    Rgds
    Tony

    | Tony H. wrote:
    | > Hi, I am looking to buy a DV Camcorder to replace my trusty but now not
    | > functioning Sony TRV 10E. My main requirement is that the camcorder MUST
    | > have DV In enabled in order for me to send the finished tape (post
    editing
    | > on the PC) back to the camcorder. When I bought the original Sony in
    1998, I
    | > also bought a widget which enabled the unit, but it doesn't look like
    you
    | > can do this with newer models?
    | >
    | > Any suggestions welcomed, JVC, Canon, Sony, Samsung, others, main
    priority
    | > is DV In facility, thanks in advance.
    | >
    | > Tony H.
    | >
    | >
    | >
    |
    | My Sony DCR-HC22E has a DV-In - from what I remember when researching to
    | buy, all of the Sony DCR-HCxxE models from 22 upwards have DV-In. I was
    | originally going for the HC18E, but paid a smidge extra for the 22 to
    | get DV-In for archiving edited footage.
    |
    | --
    | Gaz
     
    Guest, Sep 26, 2006
    #14
  15. Tony H.

    Gaz Guest

    You're welcome Tony - I think that's the first time I've ever offered
    useful advice in this group rather than asked for it! I feel all grown
    up! :)
     
    Gaz, Sep 27, 2006
    #15
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