DVD+ discs vs DVD- discs

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Farmboys, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Farmboys

    Farmboys Guest

    Is there an advantage to one over the other?
    Thanks in advance for any advice :)
    Farmboys, Jan 20, 2004
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  2. Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 20, 2004
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  3. Farmboys

    Peter Guest

    Peter, Jan 20, 2004
  4. Do not let the other posters tease you, of CAUSE DVD+ is FAR SUPERIOR ;-)
    But it really is, - is on the way out, but for me I recently found
    out I can burn DVD+RW with buffer underrun without any problem.
    That should not be very easy with DVD-..., or be less playable.
    So I think it is SAFE to BURN your DVD- stuff, and UPDATE.
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 20, 2004
  5. Farmboys

    David Chien Guest

    Do not let the other posters tease you, of CAUSE DVD+ is FAR SUPERIOR ;-)

    DVD-R is the better choice:
    1) more compatible. www.dv.com www.emedialive.com and others have
    tested both formats across various burners and players.
    www.dvdrhelp.com has player compatibility reports in case you want only
    to see what your player can handle.
    basically, even with the latest round of tests, the Pioneer
    burners wtih Maxell discs were the most compatible with lowest bad discs
    rate out of all combos out.
    (Pioneer is the pioneer of consumer dvd recorders, so everthing's
    tested to make sure they work with one.)

    2) Because Pioneer was out years before anyone else in the pro-sumer
    field, most of the movie companies and video editor companies have them
    and use them. (even Apple superdrives are Pioneer drives) Thus, you
    can't go wrong having and using them. Because they were first DVD-R
    drives (only later combo DVD+/-R drives), you can rest assured that more
    companies have DVD-R compatible stuff than DVD+R for movie making.

    3) DVD-R discs are cheaper, in general, across the board. even
    www.meritline.com still has DVD-R discs cheap, cheaper than DVD+R discs.
    No point paying more for no advantages.

    4) No differences in end product. Basically, once you burn +r or -r
    discs, they work and act identically in players. Thus, no point paying
    more for something that doesn't give you any advantage at all.

    5) Highest quality discs are DVD-R discs. Maxell and Ritek G04 (4th
    generation) discs are among the very best, more reliable, most
    compatible discs available, and only in their DVD-R versions.

    6) More home TV top DVD recorders use DVD-R discs than DVD+R. No
    point using DVD+R if they're not going to be as compatible or playable
    in the TV top recorders.

    7) Cheaper discs. Did I say that already? Why pay more for the same
    David Chien, Jan 20, 2004
  6. You post from an edu?
    Why don't you look up the technical differences before confusing everybody.
    DVD- has no future.
    You silently left out the restart after under run issue...
    Why not have a read about it at:
    from someone who actually has experience with writing software for both.
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 20, 2004
  7. Personnal observation:
    I use DVD's for backup (monthly and dayly). I use two sets of 5 DVD+RWs and
    one set of 5 DVD-RWs.

    Of the DVD+RW's none have failed, of the DVD-RW's two have failed. Could
    just be my luck however.

    Michael Walraven, Jan 21, 2004
  8. Farmboys

    AnthonyR Guest

    David, 2years later, your still tooting the DVD_R is better horn, LOL
    However, its getting harder isn't it?

    Don't say i didn't tell you back in 2002, :)

    AnthonyR, Jan 21, 2004
  9. Farmboys

    Trevor S Guest

    I prefer -RAM for databackups

    Trevor S

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
    Trevor S, Jan 21, 2004
  10. Farmboys

    Bariloche Guest

    That's not my opinion. I agree with you that DVD+R is better; that's
    obvious -it has features that DVD-R has not. But those features are
    not widely sought, while it's less compatible and more expensive.

    So, if the question is "which is better?", the answer is DVD+R.

    But if the question is "which one should I use", then the answer
    probably is DVD-R.

    BTW, when DVD+R came out, there were wars at this group between
    supporters of each format. It's a pleasure to see those wars are not
    with us anymore.
    Bariloche, Jan 21, 2004
  11. Farmboys

    Bariloche Guest

    Is DVD-RW easy to find there? It's very difficult to find it in Spain,
    while it's easy with DVD-R. Wonder if DVD-RW is in some way a
    defective format.
    Bariloche, Jan 21, 2004
  12. Farmboys

    joe_reed Guest

    Technically, DVD+R is the better choice.
    BZZZZZZT! Wrong! If you take the EXACT same video files and use the
    EXACT same authoring program and burn your movie to a -R and +R, if
    your DVD player can play the - disc, it WILL play the + disc. You
    really should do better research for spreading half truths.
    What tests?
    Hahahhaha! PUH-lease!
    Do you actually read/research before you post or pull stuff out of
    your butt like the paragraph above?
    Yeah, cheaper and are rated at only being capable of burning at 1x!!!!
    Naturally, DVD+R discs might be a few pennies more since they burn at
    over twice the speed of your "cheaper" discs. Stop comparing apples to
    This contradicts your first "point" where you said -r is more
    compatible. You've just demonstrated to all here that you're totally
    You do know that *ALL* blank DVD media comes from the same 3 factories
    in Asia, right? Do you have facts to back up the statement that -r
    discs are the HIGHEST quality?
    Last time I checked, BB (and other electronic stores) had more +R set
    top recorders than -r. Don't believe me? Go visit some stores instead
    of inventing "facts". And that last sentence..... almost makes my head
    You said it, but forgot to mention that they're only rated for burning
    at 1x.
    joe_reed, Jan 21, 2004
  13. Farmboys

    David Chien Guest

    Why don't you look up the technical differences before confusing everybody.
    blah, blah, blah, Okay, everyone here running Linux and burning
    DVDs, put your hand up. Everyone doing it under Windows?

    Basically, 90+% of the world of personal computer users run Windows,
    and that includes the majority of DVD burner users today.

    As such, all of the major Windows programs - Sonic MyDVD, Roxio EZCD,
    Ahead Nero, Ulead DVD Workshop, Adobe Encore, Vegas Video 4 + DVD,
    CloneDVD, DVDXCopy, etc. all work perfectly fine with DVD-R and DVD+R users.

    If there =was= a true problem (not just the points I noted earlier),
    everyone at www.cdreaks.com forums, www.rpc1.org forums, and
    dvdrhelp.com forums would have distributed this information immediately,
    and everyone would know right away there was a significant problem with
    one format or the other that would result in a strong recommendation
    away from that format.

    That said, no such post has been made. Basically, stick in a disc
    (either format), burn your favorite videos, eject and play on TV DVD
    players - that's exactly what most people encounter today.
    David Chien, Jan 21, 2004
  14. OK, but there is a little issue, now with DTV (digital TV), and in Europe
    for example we have DVB-s (digital satellite) broadcasting at about
    4500kbps, this is slower then DVD 1 x.
    So ALWAYS if recording directly to DVD there will be an underrun.
    Of cause you can record to disk first, but that takes disk space.
    For the simply dumping of DTV to DVD, + is perhaps the only
    possible way.
    Of cause I am taking a path few others even know about, like cat
    directly to the disk from satellite.
    Faster cheaper better...
    If you want to do editing then you would go to disk first perhaps, IF
    you have the space.
    No standard wars 4 me, but man am I glad I have bought a +.
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 21, 2004
  15. Yep, me 83 DVD+ R and RW mixed, zero errors.
    On a Philips DVD+RW228
    No idea how the numbers are for DVD-,
    I use Nashua and Imation mainly and 1 Philips RW disk.
    All (but one :), the first one) burned in Linux.
    Also I do a compare test on all data DVDs (verify against the image),
    most are data disks, so OK means 100% tested in that case.
    Important for me, before I erase any originals, I want to be SURE
    the backup is correct.
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 21, 2004
  16. Farmboys

    David Chien Guest

    1) more compatible. www.dv.com www.emedialive.com and others have
    Will you get real?

    www.dvdrhelp.com -> DVD Players -> each player has a list of DVD+R
    and DVD-R disc compatibility. As you can see, and even through searches
    online, you will find that some DVD players can only play DVD-R discs,
    some can only play DVD+R discs, and some can play both perfectly fine.

    The fact that you can burn both formats and play one format on DVD
    players does not prove you can play the other format just fine without

    See above: www.dv.com and www.emdialive.com online and in their print

    No other vendor on this planet that you talk to will disagree simply
    because they didn't have a single drive out in the beginning of DVD-R
    back in 1997. Heck, even DVD+R was not released until mid 2002!

    You can talk all day about this and that, but for sure, DVD-R has a five
    year lead over DVD+R in terms of development.

    And you can always search the US Patent Database for prior patents on
    each format: hint, many of them held by Philips.
    Take a look at the 4x discs they sell - DVD-R sells cheaper than
    DVD+R discs.
    Wrong. There's LeadData, Ritek, Mitsui, PioneerTDK, CMC Magnetics,
    Mitsubishi/Verbatim, Prodisc, etc.

    Gee, already, that more than three fully independently owned and
    operated companies making DVD media throughout the world.

    Statistics in June 2003 on DVD media:
    "Ritek claims No. 1 position in recordable DVD disc market worldwide
    Jimmy Hsu, Taipei; Wen-Yu Lang, DigiTimes.com [Tuesday 17 June 2003]

    Taiwan-based Ritek has maintained the number one position in the
    recordable DVD disc market since the second half of last year, seizing a
    global market share of about 30%, according to the company.

    Quoting data from market research firm Fujiwara-Rothchild, Ritek said it
    took a 30.9% global market share in rewritable DVD discs and 28% in
    write-once DVD discs in the first quarter of 2003.

    Japan-based Ricoh recently approved Ritek’s 4x DVD+RW discs, following
    its validation of Ritek’s 4x DVD+R discs, Ritek said. In addition, Ritek
    was the first Taiwanese optical storage disc maker to submit a request
    for approval of 8x DVD-R discs to the DVD Forum Working Group-6 (WG6), a
    DVD Forum group responsible for the DVD-R/RW specifications, the
    Taiwanese company said.

    Ritek’s monthly DVD disc capacity is about 10 million units, among which
    about 85-90% are write-once discs, while the remainder are rewritable
    ones, said the company, which plans to double its DVD capacity by
    year-end. Ritek does not produce read-only DVD discs."

    Global write-once DVD market shares, 1Q 2003
    Rank Company Market share
    1 Ritek 28%
    2 Matsushita 14%

    3,4,5 Optodisc 9%
    CMC 9%
    JVC 9%
    Total 69% worldwide market share (1-5)


    You probably have mistaken the prior quote published: three major
    Taiwanese manufacturers of = CD-R = media, Ritek 26% (2000 year data,
    the largest maker of CD-R media then in the world), CMC 18%, Princo 11%,
    capturing about 85% of the entire world market share of CD-R production
    in 2000.

    "Monday, July 31, 2000

    Taiwan CD-Rs dominate world market

    Published: July 31, 2000
    Source: The Taiwan Economic News

    aiwan's CD-R products are expected to capture 85.6% of the world's
    market share in 2000, with Ritek Corp. to enjoy the highest market share
    of 26%, officials at the non-profit Photonics Industry Technology &
    Development Association (PIDA) said last Friday.

    Ritek is the largest CD-R manufacturer in the world, followed by CMC
    Magnetics Corp., with world market share of 18% and Princo Corp. with 11%.

    Prodisc Technology Inc. is fourth, also registering 11%, while
    Gigastorage Corp. holds 3% of world market share, according to PIDA

    World CD-R demand is estimated to reach 4.2 billion in 2000, while
    supply will hit 4.9 billion. Several CD-R makers in Taiwan expanded
    their production volumes early this year but the supply of key
    components is still seriously short, PIDA officials said.

    The fast development of broadband networking will help raise demand for
    CD-R products. It is expected that the world's CD-R market will increase
    to 6.04 billion in 2001, up 44% from 2000.

    Most major CD-R manufacturers in Taiwan such as Ritek, CMC, Princo, and
    Prodisc are expanding their CD-RW and DVD production lines, and
    production volumes will increase dramatically in the years to come,
    ranking PIDA officials said.

    According to PIDA predictions, the world's CD-RW market demand will
    increase to 286 million units in 2000, up from only 58 million in 1999.
    Their price is expected to drop to US$0.9 per unit from US$7 per unit
    last year, and to US$0.75 per unit in 2001, a move which will increase

    In 1999, the DVD video market demand totaled about 110 million units.
    Such sales will grow to 370 million in 2000 and climb to 990 million in
    2001. DVDs are expected to eventually replace videotapes in the market."

    Why don't you 'prove' your statements then instead of simply flaming


    bestbuy.com today.
    8 recorders in their DVD recorder section.

    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMR-E50S
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMR-E100HS
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMR-E80HS
    [dvd+r] Philips DVDR75
    [dvd-r] Pioneer DVR810-HS
    [dvd+r] RCA DRC8000N
    [both ] Sony RDR-GX7
    [dvd-r] Zenith DVR313

    DVD-R total = 5
    DVD+R total = 2
    Dual format = 1


    5 items

    [dvd+r] Magnavox MDV630R17
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMRE50S
    [dvd-r] Philips DVDR7517
    [both ] Sony RDRGX7
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMRE80HS

    DVD-R total = 3
    DVD+R total = 1
    Dual format = 1


    11 items

    [dvd+r] Govideo R6530
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMR-E80HS
    [dvd-r] Philips DVDR75
    [both ] Philips DVDR77
    [both ] Philips DVDR80
    [dvd-r] Pioneer DVR310S
    [dvd-r] Pioneer DVR510HS
    [dvd-r] Pioneer DVR810S
    [dvd-r] Samsung DVD-R4000
    [both ] Sony RDRGX7
    [dvd-r] Toshiba DR1

    DVD-R total = 7
    DVD+R total = 1
    Dual format = 3


    4 items

    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMRE50S
    [dvd-r] Panasonic DMRE80HS
    [dvd+r] Liteon LW5001
    [dvd+r] Philips DVDR75

    DVD-R total = 2
    DVD+R total = 2


    total thus far
    DVD-R total = 17
    DVD+R total = 6
    Dual format = 5

    DVD+R share (compared to total of DVD-R and DVD+R recorders): 35%
    DVD+R share (comapred to total including dual format recorders): 27%

    This is true for 1x and 4x discs at meritline.com for their cheapest
    available discs in either category.
    David Chien, Jan 21, 2004
  17. You are not addressing the issue, this is NOT about Linux versus MS.
    It is about restart after a buffer under-run, MUCH more likely to happen in MS
    soft because of the bloat of cause.
    But the point is that this happens much smoother in DVD+, plus all the other PLUSSES.
    Read the site people.
    Makes good info, and not so biased as you David.
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 22, 2004
  18. Farmboys

    Cory Guest

    Somebody explain this:
    I have a multi-format burner and have been burning +R and -R for quite a
    while now. From personal experience, I've found that several of my +R discs,
    on playback, will begin to skip through my movies. What's going on?
    I haven't experienced this with the -R format at all. I use TDK discs for
    both formats.
    And why has Apple chosen to support -R?

    Cory, Jan 22, 2004
  19. Farmboys

    Bariloche Guest

    It may make more sense to write down DTV to DVD+R. But current CD
    recorders have ways of preventing total failure from a stopped flow of
    data whhile recording. I assume DVD recording has the same protection.
    Then, what the recorder would do is buffering the data before burning
    it by chunks. In the end, wether DVD-R shall survive may depend on the
    cost of the discs, but also on the support from companies. Video 2000
    might have been the best VHS format, but other than Grundig or
    Philips, who knew of its existence?
    Bariloche, Jan 22, 2004
  20. Farmboys

    Rob Guest

    I am almost afraid to write in this thead, but I can't sit idly by.

    DVD-R is the superior format for making (or copying, if you please)
    DVD movies. It has a better track record in standalone DVD players,
    it *IS* the defacto standard based on existing DVD Video, and in
    general, the media contains less PI/PO errors than compatible DVD+R
    media. The error rate of DVD+ media is greater, hence the more

    The fact that more companies push the DVD+ format HAS NOTHING TO DO
    WITH ANYTHING in regards to quality and compatibility. More companies
    pushed VHS too, but Beta was clearly superior. However, even that
    analogy is flawed since both DVD formats more or less work in the same

    And in the end, unless you are making computer data DVD-ROM's, the
    standard is not another computer optical drive, but actual standalone
    DVD players. Even if the "Plus" format wins and the "Minus" format is
    wiped out 10 years from now, all your discs will still play in a DVD
    player. Isn't that what matters?

    Use DVD-R for as long as possible, but I regret that the DVD+ format
    is winning the media attention, pun intended.

    Rob, Jan 22, 2004
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