dvd resolution compared to monitor resolution

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Socrates, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Socrates

    Socrates Guest

    Hi - Can someone please explain the resolution at which commercial DVDs are
    displayed in programs such as Power DVD and how they can display such a high
    resolution and quality independent of the monitor resolution?

    DVD films are displayed with great clarity, yet I cannot obtain anything
    like such a clear image by connecting an analogue camera or digital camera
    to my pc.

    If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture card,
    the image of the camera scene displayed on the monitor leaves much to be
    desired.

    Similarly, if I connect an expensive sony cam corder via firewire, the image
    on the monitor still leaves much to be desired.

    Flat screen monitor Flatron L1510S
    RADEON 7000 adapter
    Windows xp

    Yours faithfully,


    John Aidiniantz
    www.londoncctv.com
     
    Socrates, Jul 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. OK using avicodec to analyse a camcorder dv capture:

    Video : 725 MB, 3778 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 720*576 (4:3), dvsd = Sony
    Digital Video, Supported

    ..... and an uncompressed vob extract direct from a dvd:

    Video : 731 MB, 5500 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 720*576 (2.21:1), MPG2 = MPEG 2
    (SVCD/DVD), Supported

    Looks like they are the same resolution at 720x576.

    I would put the quality down to the fact that hollywood can afford *very*
    expensive cameras and post processing equipment with quality you can only
    dream about, wheras your basic camcorder is built to a limited budget.
    There is more to image quality than pixels.
     
    Adrian Boliston, Jul 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. Socrates

    Will Dormann Guest

    Standard DVD resolution is 720x480 in NTSC land.

    Well first of all you're comparing film to video. But more
    importantly, what did your cameras cost? (Hint: There's a reason why
    cameras used to film hollywood movies are more expensive than consumer
    equipment)


    -WD
     
    Will Dormann, Jul 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Socrates

    Jukka Aho Guest

    Lighting can also play a very important role.

    Home video is often shot using whatever light there was readily
    available on the scene. Movie scenes, however - even those which
    look dark and those which look like they were shot using normal
    daylight - are usually carefully lit.
     
    Jukka Aho, Jul 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Socrates

    Socrates Guest

    Well first of all you're comparing film to video. But more
    importantly, what did your cameras cost? (Hint: There's a reason why
    cameras used to film hollywood movies are more expensive than consumer
    equipment)

    Hi - Sorry - I was referring to DVD discs which display very clearly on my
    monitor.

    I can't however get anywhere near the same quality if I plug my sony digital
    camera into my pc and simply view the canera scene on my monitor.

    Details in the background can't easily be seen because of the pixelation -
    and quite simply the level of detail is not available as it is with DVD
    discs. I don't think the problem is connected with the resolution as the
    Sony TR900e is presumably a high-end digital camorder.

    I am looking to find a way of getting a really sharp view of the camera
    scene on the pc screen - something aking to looking through the viewfinder
    of any ordinary camera which does not have the artifacts that one sees on a
    pc screen. I will then be able to take timed snap shots of the pc screen for
    cctv purposes.

    Yours faithfully,


    John Aidiniantz
    www.londoncctv.com
     
    Socrates, Jul 29, 2004
    #5
  6. Socrates

    SjT Guest

    There's nothing i like more than finding a love letter from "Socrates"
    I imagine the issues you are having are to do with interlacing, this
    makes your imported clips look nasty on a computer monitor, but good
    again when played through an interlaced source (i.e. TV set).
     
    SjT, Jul 29, 2004
    #6
  7. Socrates

    Jukka Aho Guest

    DVD discs - commercial ones - most often originate on film.
    After all, most of the DVD's on the market are Hollywood
    movies, which are (usually) shot on film.
    A normal video camera - if not one of those models that can
    be specifically put into "progressive" mode - is inherently
    an interlaced device. Your computer monitor, however, is
    usually operating in progressive scanning mode.

    Displaying interlaced video footage on a progressive scan
    display device (such as on a computer monitor) is a tricky
    affair. If you want to see the picture properly at all, the
    software displaying it needs to be a) aware of interlacing
    and b) do something about it.

    Still, even if the software you use for DV video playback
    _does_ something about interlacing, you can never get quite
    the same quality as when displaying the same footage on a
    real, interlaced scanning display device, such as on a
    regular tv set.

    You might want to read more about interlacing here:
    <http://www.lurkertech.com/lg/fields/fields.html>

    Hollywood movies on DVD's do not suffer about this problem
    since they have been sourced from film, which has progressive
    (non-interlaced) frames.

    Then again, there is nothing wrong with interlacing if you
    just display your interlaced signals on an interlaced display
    device - such as your regular run-of-the-mill tv set.
     
    Jukka Aho, Jul 29, 2004
    #7
  8. I assume you are using firewire (not just usb)?
     
    Adrian Boliston, Jul 29, 2004
    #8
  9. Socrates

    David Chien Guest

    If I use an expensive panasonic analogue camera via a Win TV capture card,
    See www.bealecorner.com -> Sony TRV section for information re: some
    of the lower-end high-quality DV camcorders that can make high-quality
    DVD videos. Also, if you move up to 3CCD camcorders of high quality
    (eg. Canon XL series; HiDef DV camcorders; etc.), then you'll be able to
    produce DVDs of high quality.

    The key here is to light and setup the entire set just like an actual
    film production -- lots of light, good placement of lighting, etc. to
    give the camcorder sensors the best image to work with. You can achieve
    very high quality DVDs with 'affordable' high-end equipment, but you
    have to produce one with equally high quality standards to get there.

    www.dv.com forums for more...
     
    David Chien, Jul 29, 2004
    #9
  10. Socrates

    Socrates Guest

    been sourced from film, which has progressive (non-interlaced) frames.

    Hi - the Sony TRV900E can be put into progressive scan mode, but the camera
    scene still lacks clarity on the pc monitor even if it is not recording but
    simply plugged in; wheras the Hollywood films displayed in the PowerDVD
    window are clear - no interlacing problems and there is clarity even in the
    background details.

    There is more to this anomally than meets the eye!

    The pc monitor is capable of displaying clear quality DVD recordings within
    the PowerDVD program window, yet not when I simply view the camera scene via
    an analogue camera (Win tv capture card) or a digital camera via (d-link
    firewire card).

    I would be pleased just to be able to display the camera scene clearly on
    the monitor without actually recording any frames.

    Even looking at small title text in power dvd in a frozen frame is very
    clear so this might mean that the problem lies with the capture cards
    technology - some compression or degradation is produced by the capture card
    or d-link firewire card- or it might be due to the fact (as has been pointed
    out) that unless a camera is up to 'Hollywood' standard, one should not
    expect much from a consumer-quality video camera.

    Yours faithfully,


    John Aidiniantz
    www.londonctv.com
     
    Socrates, Jul 29, 2004
    #10
  11. Socrates

    Bill Ball Guest

    Is the issue the software app you are using to display the video
    stream from your camera? Its been a long time since I've looked at
    analog in but even with DV in over firewire, many program's preview
    screens are not that sharp. I think they are only roughly decoding the
    image. For example the preview you get in MS Movie Maker isnt too hot.
    On the other hand Premiere Pro shows an extremely sharp view of what
    the camera is seeing. In both cases the video actually recorded to the
    computer is full resolution. Its just that the preview window is not
    showing the full resolution image in some editors Similarly Windows
    Media Player doesnt show a DV avi file in full resolution when you
    play it back. It's only when you get to the final delivery codec, such
    as the MPEG-2 based DVD, that you see the full resolution--even though
    its more heavily compressed than the DV avi, it looks sharper.

    So if you mean that when you hook up your camera to the computer and
    view what is coming in the lens (or off tape) it doesnt look too
    sharp, then I think your preview app is not showing full resolution.
    Try capturing/transferring the file and then rendering it out in a
    publishing codec such as high bitrate MPEG-2. Then you will see what
    you actually have.

    Of course video on your PC is not going to look the same as video on
    your TV. Compare a rendered video that you made on your PC to a DVD
    played on that PC.
     
    Bill Ball, Jul 29, 2004
    #11
  12. Ok, I have not used wmplayer for ages as I have come to realise that it is a
    waste of space, however I just cannot understand why playing a standard DV
    file gets this treatment? Who at Microsoft decided that a DV file should
    only be played at a very limited resolution, rather than the native
    resolution of the DV format? Do they hate the idea of anyone playing
    anything apart from a wmv file?
     
    Adrian Boliston, Jul 29, 2004
    #12
  13. Socrates

    Socrates Guest

    Is the issue the software app you are using to display the video stream
    from your camera?

    Hi - and thank you for a very informative and helpful answer which could
    point to a possible solution.

    I am not actually recording avi clips from the video camera as this will
    take up too much space for cctv purposes - what I am trying to do is to
    simply capture the camera scene displayed on the monitor using an automated
    screen capture utility such as Hypersnap.

    I am using a Win TV capture card to convert and display the analogue signal
    from the camera - but from what you say it might be that the preview window
    is not of sufficient resolution. I will certainly look at Premier Pro and
    see what that is all about.

    Finding a way to capture clear images of the camera scene at timed intervals
    is vital for cctv purposes - but no one seems to have worked on the
    solution! The America's Most Wanted website www.amw.com is full of cctv
    images, yet in not one of them is it possible to identify the suspect.

    Yours faithfully,


    John Aidiniantz
    www.londoncctv.com
     
    Socrates, Jul 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Socrates

    David Chien Guest

    Hi - the Sony TRV900E can be put into progressive scan mode, but the camera
    What may be happening is a combination of frame rate (different rates
    on DV camcorder & monitor) and software deinterlacing of the DVD
    (PowerDVD and others have sophisticated deinterlacing which can make the
    DVD look really good on the monitor). The raw DV input video is simply
    that, w/o post-processing to make it look any better.

    You may want to try taking video shots of a resolution test target
    (they have them on www.bealecorner.com -> EIA target) and see if indeed,
    you are getting the highest quality video output from your DV camcorder
    to the PC. If so (about 500 lines of resolution or so for DV video),
    then that's as good as you're going to get. You'll probably then want
    to consider moving up to a HiDef Camcorder at this point if you want
    more resolution since DV will max out at 500 lines or so.
     
    David Chien, Jul 30, 2004
    #14
  15. Socrates

    Bill Ball Guest

    Premiere Pro isnt really what you are looking for. Its a sophisticated
    video editing program. It just happens to have a capture utility that
    displays the highest quality DV-in preview that I have seen. If you
    find something simple that can display a full resolution DV-in
    preview, please post it back to this list. I'd love to have something
    like that also so I can more easily use my laptop on set to preview
    takes as they are being set up and shot.

    Bill
     
    Bill Ball, Jul 31, 2004
    #15
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