Editing together multiple sources?

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by Ed Chilada, Mar 13, 2006.

  1. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    I usually use Pinnacle Studio for my editing (stuck with v9 since v10
    was diabolically slow on the same PC - but that's another story).
    However, I'm now faced with a project where multiple cameras were used
    to shoot the same scenes, which I'd like to be able to switch between.
    Studio really doesn't seem to be set up to allow this, so what do you
    recommend? Ideally something as easy to use as Studio, but which
    allows the manipulation of multiple sources at once.


    Cheers
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Studio 9+ should be able to handle two cameras (synch'ed and placed
    on the two video tracks)...

    For more complex setups and for extra features, I would recommend Liquid.
    But we are talking of something rather different (more powerful, more
    complicated, more expensive).

    Ciao,
    --
    Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
    Dep:pH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
    Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
    Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
    CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
    Switzerland E-Mail:
     
    Roberto Divia, Mar 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Ed Chilada

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In Studio 9's Help, look up 'Full Quality' and 'Album'.

    Basically if you've set up for Full Quality, the clips will be stored in
    the directory that you have chosen (See Tools). You then import all
    camera's video clips, which now appear in your Album (they're actually
    located in the directory that you've chosen). Then you have all your
    clips to select when editing.

    Not being sarcastic - but have you read the manual?
     
    Tony Morgan, Mar 13, 2006
    #3
  4. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    What does this mean? I can't find an option to set "Full Quality" as
    some kind of mode.. Obviously there's capture quality, but I capture
    in DV, where the quality is of course fixed.

    Tools menu? I can't see that either!

    That sounds interesting, but I really can't find it - either in the
    Manual or the Help!

    Yes, albeit a while ago - and five minutes ago of course!


    Can you be more specific about where I'm to find this option?
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 13, 2006
    #4
  5. I cannot see how what you describe can help for multi-cam editing, where
    the key factors are synchronization and multi-stream parallel cuts.
    Perhaps you could give us more details on this subject?

    Thanks in advance,
    --
    Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
    Dep:pH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
    Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
    Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
    CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
    Switzerland E-Mail:
     
    Roberto Divia, Mar 13, 2006
    #5
  6. Ed Chilada

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Ed Chilada
    If you have read the manual and used the Help, you really shouldn't need
    a walk-through by me - but here goes:

    TO SET THE DIRECTORY (FOLDER) TO STORE YOUR CLIPS

    1. Select '1 Capture' in the tabs.
    2. Select 'Capture' in the Toolbar.
    3. Select 'Choose Directory' in the pull-down.
    4. Navigate through your drive in the usual Windows fashion
    You can create directories (folders) using the centre
    icon at the top. You can also create a prefix for captured
    clips. I'd suggest that you change this for each of the camera
    tape captures, so you can see which camera (position) is
    associated with each clip.
    5. Click OK.

    TO SET FULL QUALITY

    1. Select '1 Capture in the tabs.
    2. Select 'Setup' in the toolbar.
    3. Select 'Capture Source' from the pull-down.
    4. Select 'DV Camcorder from the Video pull-down
    (Do not press OK yet)
    5. Select 'DV Camcorder' from the Audio pull-down
    (Do not press OK yet).
    6. See Note 1 below.
    7. Select the 'Capture format' from the tabs.
    8. Select 'DV' from the Presets pull-down.
    9. Now press 'OK'.

    TO SELECT 'ALBUM'

    1. Select '2. Edit' tab.
    2. At this time, the Album should be the directory
    that you selected in 'TO SET THE DIRECTORY
    (FOLDER) TO STORE YOUR CLIPS' above.
    If not then navigate to the appropriate directory
    (folder).

    When you now select the '1 Capture' tab, the default folder will be that
    which you configured in 'TO SET THE DIRECTORY (FOLDER) TO STORE YOUR
    CLIPS' above.

    To change the clip name prefix, set it after you've clicked the 'Start
    Capture' on the Discometer. As I suggested, you can name each camera's
    clips here, so as to identify them when editing.

    You can now do your editing Capture/Editing. If you 'Save Project' or
    'Save Project As' all the above settings will be stored.

    NOTE 1.

    You'll have noticed that you can change the way your video clips are
    divided up when capturing (in the 'Capture source' tab and 'Scene
    detection' buttons). Your aim here should be to give yourself a means of
    'synching' the various camera clips in the timeframe. If (as is likely)
    you are running each camera continuously, then I'd suggest (indeed
    strongly recommend) that you use a time period to clip, and try to
    synchronise the start of each camera so that you can relate (at any
    time) the relevant clips from each camera. If you can't get it exactly
    right, it can be adjusted at the editing stage.

    Though OT, perhaps I should mention that more advanced editors better
    support the 'multiple-camera' projects. Vegas, for instance, permits an
    unlimited number of video and audio layers (timeline tracks). So you
    capture the whole tape from each camera (as one contiguous clip). Then
    put each camera video/audio on it's own timeline track, and synch then
    by nudging. Then you can split all tracks at the same point, delete the
    non-wanted sections - so you get a change of camera seamlessly on your
    rendered video. You can also use a master audio file (maybe from the
    band's mixer) and dispense with the audio from each camera.
     
    Tony Morgan, Mar 13, 2006
    #6
  7. Ed Chilada

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <dv40oo$83l$>, Roberto Divia
    See my (last) response to Ed.

    As I pointed out at he end, more advanced editors are much better suited
    to multi-camera projects. However, using the time-suffix which is placed
    in each clip's filename it is possible to synch the clips - though it is
    fiddly and time consuming. The trick is to first establish an offset
    (time) for each camera, the by using the nudge (arrow or CTRL/Arrow) by
    the offset amount, you can move the cursor and cut at that point.

    I haven't tried it with Studio, but it should also be possible to use
    the title track (layer) for synching, and cutting across all tracks
    (layers), then moving the required clip to the top layer, deleting the
    unwanted clip(s).
     
    Tony Morgan, Mar 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Premiere Elements has heaps of tracks. It's quite cheap to buy,
    especially when bundled with Photoshop Elements. I am intending to edit
    a video such as you describe using it.

    Margaret
     
    Margaret Willmer, Mar 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    No not at all. But the problem here Tony is that none of the procedure
    that you've admirably provided actually helps with my problem!!

    In actuality, I already have all the captured AVIs in raw DV format. I
    don't have access to the source tapes. But then I don't see *any*
    merit in recapturing the files anyway?

    <snip details>

    Sure


    Yeah, already was - like I said in my previous post "I capture
    in DV, where the quality is of course fixed".

    Which is exactly as I already had. A bunch of clips in a directory,
    ripped at DV quality from the camera.


    Again, I'm pretty much at this stage already. The question was with
    regard to editing these clips on the timeline.

    Yep, already was.
    Why's it OT? This is effectively the question I was asking in the
    first place.

    Not being sarcastic - but did you read my post?


    Y'see, now that the kinda answer I was after!
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 15, 2006
    #9
  10. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    Yeah, I'll persist with that a bit longer I think. What I was thinking
    of was what Tony (eventually) described WRT Vegas - in that I'd kinda
    lay all the parts down on the timeline, sync them and then create a
    'path' through them as a director might switch between different live
    feeds on a TV programme.

    Yeah, and since v10 of Studio is based on Liquid, I wouldn't expect it
    to run very well.


    Cheers!
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 15, 2006
    #10
  11. Ed Chilada

    RobDee Guest

    This image speaks for itself. If it doesn't, then take the link back to the
    article.
    Bad news is the price.

    Rob
     
    RobDee, Mar 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Ed Chilada

    RobDee Guest

    And here's the link................ durr, how is it that you realise you've
    forgotten the link / attachment at the same micro instant you hit the send
    button? Or is it just me?

    http://www.pcworld.com/resource/zoom.asp#

    Rob
     
    RobDee, Mar 15, 2006
    #12
  13. Ed Chilada

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    I can, read on...

    Which is NOT what you want! Read on...

    Probably not, Dear Tony is famed for mouthing off without
    understanding what the question was, preferring to answer what he
    thinks the question was....
    Yes, you need to recapture both tapes IN FULL, you then place the
    main [1] video track on the first timeline and the other on the
    second, you then need to sync the two tracks using a sound or visual
    point (if you were shooting this now you would use a clapperboard or
    photo flash gun), you can then cut between cameras by deleting the
    sections of don't need (IYSWIM?) - add transitions etc. to taste and
    then render.

    [1] you only want to use one audio track, use the best version you
    have, once the tracks are on the timeline you then unlink the audio
    from the video tracks, during the edit mute the second audio track
    and delete before the render - the second audio track is only left in
    place in case there are 'local' problems with the main audio track,
    when it can be used if needs be.

    Now, not ever having used any version of 'Studio' software I have no
    idea if it will handle to video track simultaneously, if not you are
    going to need some more professional software as you MUST have at
    least two video tracks. We would need more info on what your computer
    spec is before suggesting other software.

    Hope that help some who?
     
    :::Jerry::::, Mar 15, 2006
    #13
  14. Ed Chilada

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    Oh yes he did Tony, yet another example of you not reading the
    question asked, the OP said (and I quote) "Studio really doesn't seem
    to be set up to allow this, so what do you recommend?".
     
    :::Jerry::::, Mar 15, 2006
    #14
  15. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest


    That link doesn't tell me much either!
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 16, 2006
    #15
  16. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    As Jerry correctly points out, I did ask for and expect that the
    answer would lie in a different software package. I mentioned S9 as
    being the point where I was coming from, but believing that it didn't
    really suit multi-source editing. I'll give it another shot though,
    based on what Roberto said.


    Studio was not the topic.. editing together multiple sources was the
    topic and the solution sought.

    Sure, Vegas seems to be quite expensive but I didn't give a budget.


    But really, I do appreciate the effort, but I don't appreciate being
    told (however implicitly), to read the manual by someone who simply
    hasn't understood what I'm asking.
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Ed Chilada

    RobDee Guest

    RobDee, Mar 16, 2006
    #17
  18. ?????

    First of all: *part* of the engine of Liquid 6 has been exported to
    Studio 10. Liquid is not Studio and Studio in not Liquid. We are
    talking carrots and apples here.

    Then: Liquid 6 and Liquid 7 run very well and do their job. Look
    around, search for negative experiences and most likely you will
    find that the big majority is very happy with both.

    As a matter of fact, I am very satisfied with Studio *and* with
    Liquid. Never had problems with neither of them, always achieved
    the expected results.

    Ciao,
    --
    Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
    Dep:pH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
    Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
    Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
    CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
    Switzerland E-Mail:
     
    Roberto Divia, Mar 16, 2006
    #18
  19. Ed Chilada

    Ed Chilada Guest

    Sure, I've tried Liquid also, and that too ran like a pig. Studio v10
    seems to have inherited the engine from Liquid that tries to do some
    of the rendering in real time. Which for most amateurs (like me!), is
    surely not necessary and just slows the whole thing down.


    I honestly think you might be in a minority! 9 Plus is the most stable
    one I've used, but ISTR trying v7 and whilst I liked it, I found it
    too unstable to use.
     
    Ed Chilada, Mar 16, 2006
    #19
  20. The fact that AL7 is "too unstable" could be (and most likely is) related to
    your system, which could also explain the bad experience you have with S10.
    These two products need a "clean" environment (codecs, firewalls, third-party,
    virus shields) and a stable platform (HW and SW). This is the major
    problem with the Windows environment: too many things that can be installed
    and can leave a trail behind them (in the system, in the registry and in
    the resources), even after being de-installed.

    Try to create a separate boot disk, where you run only your video editing
    SW. Does not take too long and you may have an immediate benefit. I would
    also recommend a good diagnostic tool (e.g. Sandra) and some memory
    stress tests, plus a general update of all drivers (starting from the
    graphic card). Load the minimum and disable the devices that are not
    related to the editor (webcams, scanners etc...).

    I did - and I keep doing - this and never had a stability problem. Never.

    Ciao,
    --
    Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
    Dep:pH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
    Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
    Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
    CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
    Switzerland E-Mail:
     
    Roberto Divia, Mar 17, 2006
    #20
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