Ektar 100 Revisited

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Michael Benveniste, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. And I asked you to stop making claims you can't substantiate
    and to stop misrepresenting what I wrote.
    Quoting: "Because according to you it varies from 2700K to well over
    3200K all the way to daylight. " Show me where I made that
    claim.
    I guess physics is amazing to you.
    They ain't tungsten. Sorry.
    You only mentioned it NOW.
    I looked at the website for the very stores you mentioned.
    Quoting: "Ektar 100 is great indoors with tungsten light."
    Old joke. Never mind.
    I did. No tungsten there. Just a halogen.
    Notice the word "flourescent?" Notice the absence of the word tungsten?
    Yes. The spotlight you linked to is a halogen, not a tungsten
    lamp.
    You _assumed_ they were tungsten. They aren't. Next cite?
    Quoting: "Commerce and most public venues changed their lighting
    here ages ago, for a lot of economic reasons." What other economic
    reason would they have besides power savings?
    It's dependent on the phosphors used. Which is why an 11 watt
    WW bulb would be the same color as a 23w WW bulb.
    I wouldn't need two sources for that. T-H-I-N-K.
    The full quote: "While household lights have changed a bit,
    photofloods have remained the same. They are still 3200K
    black-body light sources, just like in the 1950's."

    Photofloods. Not all tungsten lights. The partial quote is
    evidence of another deliberate lie.
    Where? Too bad you can't find one. 4500K isn't daylight and the
    spot you cited is a halogen. The 12V input _might_ have been a
    tipoff if you could read, or the MR16 designation.

    So your score on providing links to daylight balanced tungsten
    lights: Zero.
    If, as you claim, *modern* indoor tungsten lighting is no different
    than daylight, then again there's nothing unusual about Ektar and
    any C41 film would work. And it's clear that you were making the
    claim specifically about Ektar. Quoting: "Don't ask me what Kodak
    has done with that film."

    I've looked at your posts. The only time you mention the word
    "modern" is for film, not lights. Revisionist History again.
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 27, 2010
    #21
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  2. That's interesting, but it tells us nothing about the incandescent bulbs
    of yesteryear, nor of how their spectra compare to today's bulbs.
    Well, tungsten *is* tungsten. Since incandescent bulbs don't use
    secondary emission as fluorescents do, the color temperature is due
    solely to the filament. The difference betwixt different bulbs is mostly
    a function of the filament being heated to different temperatures
    (higher temps = higher color temps, and also shorter life). There may be
    some small differences in metal formulation, but no great magic that
    makes current bulbs that much different from yesteryear's.

    The one difference, of course, is in halogen lamps, which weren't around
    75 years ago and do behave differently from ordinary incandescents.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 27, 2010
    #22
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  3. Your lack of a sense of humor is showing badly, Noonsie, and I'm
    starting to lose patience with you too ...
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 27, 2010
    #23
  4. Yes, halogens can use a tungsten filiment. But have you
    ever heard of them being called tungsten lamps or putting
    out tungsten light?
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 27, 2010
    #24
  5. N.B.: halogen lamps *are* tungsten lamps.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 27, 2010
    #25
  6. David Nebenzahl, Mar 27, 2010
    #26
  7. Michael Benveniste

    Rol_Lei Nut Guest

    Being the Devil's Advocate here (and one side is getting uncomfortably
    Satanic), I have seen domestic incandescent bulbs and photofloods with
    blue bulbs (presumably the same as an 80A filter).
    But only very rarely....
     
    Rol_Lei Nut, Mar 27, 2010
    #27
  8. Michael Benveniste

    K W Hart Guest

    I won't claim to be able to accurately put together a filter pack just by
    looking at a negative- "That frame needs 60M 40Y at 9.25 seconds"- but I can
    look at a negative and pretty closely tell you what color clothing the model
    was wearing. It's a matter of keeping the color wheel in my head. It also
    helps that the color control buttons on my enlarger are marked cyan,
    magenta, and yellow and are colored red, green, and blue; in that order of
    course.

    It's not impossible, it's just a matter of training and skill. But, if you
    have photoshop, who needs talent?
     
    K W Hart, Mar 27, 2010
    #28
  9. Is there anybody who is?

    I wonder if the human visual perception system is capable of removing
    that orange cast and visualizing what lies beneath it. I think not.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 27, 2010
    #29
  10. Well, duh ...

    Another non sequitur answer from Bill Graham.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 28, 2010
    #30
  11. But I'd be at the disadvantage of trying to use facts, and
    I have no way of proving that _my_ diffuser was valid.
    My CFL's were supposed to be, but aren't.
    Done. One roll of Eterna 500T. I've been trying to give the
    stuff away for a while now.
    I doubt they'll be a next time in this forum, but then someone
    would criticize the difference in shadow detail. One can't devise
    an experiment to prove everything at once, nor control
    everything.

    I believe my shots demonstrated that Ektar 100 acts like any
    other daylight balanced film with regard to color temperature.
    Feel free to agree or disagree as you wish.
    No CFL has a truly smooth spectrum, but if you check the B&H
    website, for example, you'll see an entire section of fluorescent
    lighting designed for photography and studio use. I purchased
    these bulbs as part of a CamStand copystand kit, but they don't
    seem to be up to the task. Then again, neither was the CamStand
    :-(.

    I own a couple of fluorescent flash units made by Interfit -- an
    FP-38 and a CyberFlash 300. I've also rented a Bowens Trilite kit in
    the past. In each case no correction was required.
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 28, 2010
    #31
  12. That's a fairly typical chart for a tri-phosphor bulb, but not all
    bulbs exhibit that behavior. Compare it to the third chart shown
    here:

    http://www.viva-lite.in/what-is-fullspectrum-light.html

    Or the first of these two different GE bulbs:

    http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...sources/learn_about_light/pop_curves.htm?9&13

    Spikes, yes. But no missing chunks. I'd be willing to set up
    a comparison shot between the Cyberlight and a tradtional
    Hensel monolight if you're interested, this time with a dSLR.
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 29, 2010
    #32
  13. ECN-2 is the process for movie film. I'm pretty sure that
    Dale Labs still processes it for still photographers, but I
    last sent mine out here and was quite pleased:

    http://thecamerashop.com/
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 29, 2010
    #33
  14. The film is ECN-2. ECN-2 processing is still in their price list,
    but given how fast the market is changing it's probably worth
    calling ahead.

    http://thecamerashop.com/downloads/photofinishingprices.pdf
     
    Michael Benveniste, Mar 29, 2010
    #34
  15. Michael Benveniste

    Noons Guest

    David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 28/03/2010 3:32 AM:

    It's worse with Ektar100: the "orange" cast is anything but. To me it's a
    distinct red, not orange. Much redder than FujiXtra400, for example.
     
    Noons, Mar 31, 2010
    #35
  16. Michael Benveniste

    Noons Guest

    David Nebenzahl wrote,on my timestamp of 27/03/2010 3:38 PM:

    Exactly. Which is precisely the problem all along, is it not?


    and the coating used inside the glass, any reflectors and the gas used inside
    the bulb. Temperature of filament is just one factor. There are many.
    Oh yes there is. It's not just the tungsten, as I said.

    Why? Could it be because they have a different gas, different filament
    temperature and different glass coating? Perish the thought...
     
    Noons, Mar 31, 2010
    #36
  17. Ah, there's that famous friend-winning and people-influencing attitude
    we all know and love.

    I don't see why you bothered to use asterisks there.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Mar 31, 2010
    #37
  18. Ah, there's that famous friend-winning and people-influencing attitude
    we all know and love.

    I don't see why you even bothered to use asterisks there.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Apr 1, 2010
    #38
  19. You seem to misunderstand how tungsten-halogen lamps work. You might try
    rereading the article at the link I provided earlier
    (http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/Products/Halogen/HowHalogenWorks.htm).

    As I said, halogen lamps are *not* secondary-emission lamps as
    fluorescent lamps are. All of the light produced by a halogen lamp comes
    from the filament, not from secondary interactions with either the gas
    in the lamp or a coating on the inside of the bulb. So what you get (the
    spectrum produced by hot tungsten) is what you get. Tungsten is
    tungsten. The gas used in a halogen lamp is used for convection
    purposes, not for light emission.

    Regarding the gases used inside halogen bulbs, they (Sylvania) say
    "Bromine is also colorless while iodine has a very slight absorption in
    the yellow-green." So *at most* there may be a very slight dip in the
    spectrum at yellow-green. Otherwise, it's a pure tungsten spectrum,
    albeit at a higher temperature than "ordinary" (non-halogen) tungsten lamps.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Apr 1, 2010
    #39
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