Epson printers - 2400 vs. 4800 ??

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Mark Anon, Jan 1, 2006.

  1. Mark Anon

    Mark Anon Guest

    Aside from the obvious difference in print output size, what are the _real
    quality_ differences between the new Epson 2400 and 4800 printers?

    The 2400 advertises much higher 5760x1440 dpi printing, but the 4800 at
    2880x1440 is listed as a "Pro" model. What gives?

    Both use the new K3 inks.

    TIA for any help...

    Mark
     
    Mark Anon, Jan 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark Anon

    Mark² Guest

    Have you heard about "phatte" black ink for the 4800?
    -It sounds like a real solution to the ink-swap problem. -Makes me wish my
    4000 was a 4800, since neutral B&W printing is a real pain...
     
    Mark², Jan 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. Mark Anon

    Benwa Guest

    I have the R2400 and the 7800 Pro. The print speed of a 13x19 is almost
    exactly the same between the two.As far as the "PRO" designation, Epson says
    the 2400 is designed for the pros. The 1800 is considered the home users
    version.As for closer tolerences for the 4800 over the 2400, pure bs.Yes the
    cartridges are larger on the 4800, for good reason.I buy the 220ml
    cartridges and use them in my cis with my 2400.What it all boils down to is,
    buy the size of printer you really need. Myself, I don't see any use buying
    the 4800 to gain a couple of inches. The 7800 made more sense for my use!
    There is more of a difference between the 2200 and the 4000 than there is
    between the 2400 and the 4800. I can use the same ICC profiles on my 7800
    and 2400.As for the Phatte Black thing goes, it is no big deal to me.I
    print mostly matte, on larger sizes.
     
    Benwa, Jan 2, 2006
    #3
  4. Mark Anon

    C Wright Guest

    Bill has about covered it. I will just add that if you know of a place
    where you can actually see a 4800 take a look and you will see that it is
    built to commercial strength. It is quite large and quite heavy (although
    not nearly as big as the 7800 and 9800). Epson pro printers are
    individually aligned at the factory so that any paper profile done on one
    4800 will work equally well on any other 4800. Bill's assumption about the
    paper size limitation is correct; the smallest cut sheet that it will print
    on is letter size. There are ways, of course, to print more than one
    smaller image on a on a single sheet, you just need a paper trimmer to be
    able to separate them.
    It is a shock to spend the better part of $500 to replace all eight ink
    cartridges - more if you buy the 220 ml ones. On the other hand you can do
    a lot of printing before replacements are needed. I have not actually seen
    a cost study, but I am sure that in the long run buying the larger
    cartridges has to be cheaper.
    Chuck
     
    C Wright, Jan 2, 2006
    #4
  5. Mark Anon

    rafe b Guest


    Yes, a set of 110 ml carts for my 7000 costs... ka-ching... $225
    or so. But the good news is that you can make a lot of really
    big, beautiful prints with 6 x 110 ml. of ink.

    I figure -- even using Epson branded ink, the 7000 costs
    about half as much (in ink) per square foot as a desktop
    model.

    The newer Epson pro models all take 220 ml cartridges.

    I just decided against a 4800. I figure for now I'll just
    have my big *archival* prints done via LightJet or
    equivalent. I can get it done locally and at "internet"
    prices.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe b, Jan 2, 2006
    #5
  6. Mark Anon

    Mark Anon Guest

    Hi Rafe,

    If you decided against a 4800, what are you using, or what do you plan to
    purchase in place of a 4800.

    TIA-

    Mark
     
    Mark Anon, Jan 2, 2006
    #6
  7. Mark Anon

    Mark Anon Guest

    Please let me clarify: I am a serious amateur (Nikon D2X for digital and
    Canham 5x7 large format for film), but by NO means am I a working commercial
    pro. I want to be able to print _professional quality_ prints that I can
    market sell but the volume of prints I might sell will NOT be large (as much
    as I'd like it to be otherwise... <s>)

    I just wanted to add this because it sounds like the 4800 is more geared
    (rugged build, higher cost of ink cartridges) towards a higher production
    volume environment than mine???

    Mark
     
    Mark Anon, Jan 2, 2006
    #7
  8. Mark Anon

    rafe b Guest


    You won't observe a difference between these
    two in terms of print quality.

    The 4800 is a pro model, large and heavy, using
    large ink carts, and printing paper up to 18" wide.
    Compared to any desktop printer, it is built like a
    tank. Atlex sells the 110 ml. K3 carts for $69 each.

    That's approximately ten times more ink than
    your typical desktop printer, though.

    The 2400 is Epson's top-of-the-line desktop
    fine-art printer, and prints up to 13" wide. It takes
    itsy bitsy ink carts that hold a mere 11 ml or so of
    ink (per color.) Atlex sells these for a mere $11.20.

    That alone should tell you what you need to
    decide between these. That and the price
    difference, which is over $1000.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe b, Jan 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Mark Anon

    Mark² Guest

    Just to be clear...
    The 4800 prints to 17" wide...not 18".
     
    Mark², Jan 2, 2006
    #9
  10. Mark Anon

    rafe b Guest


    I ordered the Epson R1800, which seems more geared
    toward glossy papers. Plus, it's a couple hundred $$
    cheaper than the 2400.

    I expect with either one I'll be paying a small fortune
    for inks. C'est la vie. For the $1000 I've saved I can
    buy a lot of ink, or get a lot of LightJet prints made.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe b, Jan 2, 2006
    #10
  11. Mark Anon

    measekite Guest

    AND MAKE SURE NOT TO RISK A GOOD EXPENSIVE PRINTER ON NO NAME GENERIC
    AFTERMARKET INK WHERE THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE GETTING.
     
    measekite, Jan 2, 2006
    #11
  12. Mark Anon

    C Wright Guest

    While Epson does not really say, I believe that their target market for the
    4800 is someone like you. That is someone in a home/office environment who
    sells (or hopes to sell!) a few prints and likes to be able to print up to
    16x20 for personal use. The high volume labs are going to buy the 7800 or
    9800 for the larger sizes that they will produce.
    I would not buy the 4800 however if you will be switching a lot between the
    matte black and photo black cartridges. The printer wastes a serious amount
    of ink in making the switch. As you may have gathered from my previous
    post, I own a 4800 and my solution has been to print almost exclusively
    using the photo black cartridge. Most of the time I print on luster or
    satin papers that look best with the photo black. Additionally, when I feel
    a matte paper will look better, I can use Epson's Premium Semimatte paper
    which looks like a matte paper but is designed to print with the photo black
    cartridge.
    There are other solutions to this 'problem' as well using a RIP (Raster
    Image Processor) and the Phatte Black system, mentioned by someone else, or
    a variety of paper profiles designed for either the photo black or matte
    black cartridges. But that is another story!
    Chuck
     
    C Wright, Jan 2, 2006
    #12
  13. Mark Anon

    Prime Guest

    measekite <> posted the exciting message

    And make sure you order more than ten printers so that you can get
    statistical evidence that your aftermarket ink is really clogging the
    system. After all, according to measkite even if you buy 10 printers and
    use aftermarket ink with no problems, that doesn't mean he's wrong.

    His brain is a fog with his anal clog.
     
    Prime, Jan 2, 2006
    #13
  14. Mark Anon

    Mark² Guest

    On the other hand... The 4800 comes with about $400 worth of ink right in
    the box.
    -This makes it's somewhat steep price not so outlandish after all...
     
    Mark², Jan 2, 2006
    #14
  15. Mark Anon

    measekite Guest

    MOO IT IS DA BEEFER
     
    measekite, Jan 2, 2006
    #15
  16. Who said anything about non-Epson inks.

    Measkekite strikes again.
     
    Lady Margaret Thatcher, Jan 3, 2006
    #16
  17. Mark Anon

    C Wright Guest

    On 1/4/06 9:32 AM, in article
    , "Bill Hilton"

    snip
    snip

    And, as long as we are printing corrections in this thread . . .

    I said that the smallest size paper that the 4800 would handle was letter
    size (8.5x11 in.). That is close but not quite correct. It will print on
    paper that is as narrow as 8 in. wide. It will also handle paper,
    lengthwise, that is 8 in. as well. So paper pre-cut to 8x10 would work, as
    would 8x8 - if you could find that size. This all according to a call that
    I made to Epson tech. support because of my own curiosity.
    Chuck
     
    C Wright, Jan 4, 2006
    #17
  18. Mark Anon

    Mark² Guest

    What media do you print on that you believe takes advantage of that dpi?
     
    Mark², Jan 5, 2006
    #18
  19. It's called specmanship.

    Professionals know that 2880 x 1440 dpi is about all a printer,
    especially a printer with several color load inks, needs. ALso, the 4800
    is a 17" wide printer, designed with larger prints in mind, where people
    will tend to observe them from a distance. However, at 2880 x 1440, it
    will be quite difficult to see a 5670 dpi model and think it really
    looks better.

    2880 x 1440 dpi is photographic with Epson printers, and higher numbers
    usually mean slower output,. more memory demands, etc. The driver in
    the 2400 will probably not actually output at more than 720 or 1440 dpi
    anyway, so the 5670 number is a bit of a dream.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Jan 5, 2006
    #19
  20. There is a certain irony that this business model is so well "designed"
    that by Epson offering perhaps $10-$20 actual cost worth of ink, they
    can make a person justify spending an additional $1000 or more on a printer.

    Of course, if you are to use OEM inks in the less costly 2400 or R1800
    anyway, indeed the prices are what they are, and the ink cost therefore
    is a real consideration. However, that doesn't alter the fact that this
    ink is unbelievably overpriced.

    One caveat. If you are not producing large quantities of large prints,
    keep in mind the Ultrachrome inks tend to have quality loss issues after
    6 months to a year, so you want to be sure you will use them up in that
    period of time on open cartridges, or that savings on ink may be reversed.

    Further, as mentioned, if you will be moving between the Photo/glossy
    and Matte black inks often, the cost of lost ink plus replacement waste
    ink units will rapidly eat up all your savings.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Jan 5, 2006
    #20
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