Exactly where did Fuji make claims?

Discussion in 'Fuji' started by Bill, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I have a Fuji S602. I am totally pleased with it. But I see Fuji constantly
    being bashed on this newsgroup. Not so much that their cameras are bad, but
    more that everyone says they make claims about resolution. But I have never
    actually seen this in their ads or at the website. I do know that their
    Super CCD has a different architecture than standard CCD's, and whether it's
    better or not I can't say. But as far as the S062 is concerned, I have the
    original box it came it. It is a 3MP camera, and that is what it says on the
    box. It can create 6MP image files by interpolation, and listed among the
    features on the box it does say it can do this. But in large, clear print it
    says "3.1 million pixels". As for interpolation, it has it's place. It's no
    different for this camera to resample and interpolate in the camera than it
    is to take any digital image and resize with resampling in PhotoShop or some
    other software. I don't know if it uses the bicubic algorithm like PS does,
    or some other method, but if the user wants an interpolated 6MP image out of
    the camera, then he has that option.
    It seems to me that many people's posts contain as "truth" stuff they've
    only seen here posted by others rather than finding out the truth
    themselves. This seems to be true about a lot of things, not just Fuji
    pixels etc. So unless somebody can tell me precisely where and when Fuji
    misrepresented the pixel count on the S602, I'd prefer we all move on to
    more productive posts.

    Bill
     
    Bill, Dec 17, 2003
    #1
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  2. Bill

    Canopus Guest

    I haven't seen them claiming that either. I also have the S602Z and am very
    pleased with it. I took just over 200 shots with it in Turkey this summer
    at 3M Fine using two 128Mb cards and did notice that they could have been
    more detailed in some ways (probably I'm too much of a perfectionist). I've
    now started experimenting with the 6M Fine setting and I'm impressed enough
    with the increase in quality to have made me buy another 250Mb CF card so
    that I can shoot the same amount at that setting the next time I go off on
    adventures. Interpolation it may be, but, it's dam good at it or I wouldn't
    have forked out for more memory to use it.

    Personally I haven't noticed too muck knocking of Fuji here, or over the top
    praising of them either. I suspect that most users have very little
    problems and spend most of their time using it to take photos with and
    enjoying themselves. ;=))

    Rob
     
    Canopus, Dec 17, 2003
    #2
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  3. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Ok..........maybe that's what they are referring to. But people certainly
    shouldn't fault Fuji for local store poliicy!
    Bill

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    Bill, Dec 17, 2003
    #3
  4. snip

    Wasn't it in the press releases issued when the cameras were introduced?
    I can certainly remember seeing artist's impressions of the CCD plus the
    resolution claims, and a short time later the reviews saying that the claims
    didn't seem to stack up.
     
    Malcolm Stewart, Dec 17, 2003
    #4
  5. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Please re-read my original post! You said "when the cameras" (plural) "were
    introduced.". Again I am asking specifically about the S602. I can't and
    won't comment about any other models, since I haven't done any research on
    them. The product information sheet for the S602 clearly states that it's a
    3 MP camera, with 3 million effective pixels. They do say that the system
    can produce 6MP images, which is true. The camera does this by
    interpolation, much as any decent photo editing software can do when you
    resize with resampling. Some other cameras do special effects as "features"
    to help sales. But most of us do color boosting, solarization, negative or
    other effects (if we want them) wiht PhotoShop or whatever. Here are links
    to the product brochures. Both are PDF format.

    http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/bin/3rdGenSuperCCD_2.pdf

    http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/bin/re2-WebFPS602Z2P_1_1_1.pdf

    Bill
     
    Bill, Dec 18, 2003
    #5
  6. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Not at all. My point is that the box is NOT vague at all! It clearly states
    that this model (S602) is a 3MP camera. This it in larger type. Below,
    listed with other features of the camera, it does say that it can also
    produce 6MP images. This is true. It can do 6MP images. So where's the
    lie...that's all I'd like to know. It seems that this "Fuji claims" thing is
    just being passed around from one person to another as heresay. And why is
    interpolation a bad thing if someone wants to use it? Many digital
    photographers use software (PS or whatever) to interpoplate images for
    larger prints etc. PS uses a bicubic algorithm to create new pixels when you
    resize and resample to a larger size. So Fuji does this in the camera (not
    sure what algorithm is used) instead. No different than some cameras that
    offer B&W, sepia, enhanced color, even negative or solarization as
    "features". All those things can also be done afterwards with PS or other
    editing software. But as a selling point, some manufacturers include them
    onboard. That's all I'm saying.

    And please......don't compare me to that Sigma sickie!

    Bill

     
    Bill, Dec 18, 2003
    #6
  7. Bill

    Mark Herring Guest

    The only issue with Fuji (in my limited purview) is that they
    periodically advertise things that stretch credibiliy. for example,
    the claim that the super CCD somehow "enables" 6Mp files.

    in one case, they had 6Mp written on the camera and were foced to back
    down.

    Most recently, the F700 is promoted by many stores as a 6 Mp camera
    (it is really 3). The trick here is that each site has two
    photdiodes--one for high signal and one for low. OK so far, but then
    they push it a s having 6 Meg "effective" pixels. When I challenged
    them, they quoted a new Japanese trade group standard that "requires"
    them to state the total number of sensors. Sleazy. At least a
    significant number of retailers properly prmote it as a 3Mp.

    Almost all mfgs follow what i call the de-facto standard: "Pixels"
    means the number of spatially independent sensing sites which
    contribute to the spatial resolution of the image (without regard to
    color). Thus, you can intercompare almost all cameras--at least with
    their "Megapixel rating"

    The offenders with some sort of interpolation gimmick:
    Agfa (now gone)
    Epson (only one occassion that I am aware of)
    Fuji (sporadic)
    Sigma/Foveon (God help me if I make any further comment about them)

    **************************
    Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
     
    Mark Herring, Dec 18, 2003
    #7
  8. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Mark,
    I was specifying only the S602z as far as this "stretching of the truth" by
    Fuji. I did see on their data sheet (pamphlet) about Super CCD's should give
    better H & V resolutions, thereby making more overall resolutions better.
    But I don't think this claim warrants such bashing as Fuji seems to get
    here. What if someone bashed Canons "digic" chip in this way? It adds
    processing power in the camera. Surely Fuji's pixel coupling and other
    design elements of the Super CCD's add processing power to the camera, too.
    I know it makes it possible to take full size VGA movies at 30fps. Not many
    still digital cameras can do that. I'm not saying Fuji is the best......but
    it sure isn't as bad as many would lead you to believe here. Frankly, I have
    yet to see any images that are much better.....even from much more expensive
    cameras. I guess what I'm saying here is that I don't see the need for this
    almost constant Fuji bashing......it seems that it just keeps going
    around....."Fuji is no good". etc.......and when one person reads it, they
    pass it on later.....etc. They make some really good cameras, and have some
    unique features. Not for everyone....that's for sure. But then no camera is
    "best" for everyone. That's why we have choices.

    Bill
     
    Bill, Dec 18, 2003
    #8
  9. Bill

    Mark Herring Guest

    Yes, it might increase H & V resolution , but it cannot increase
    OVERALL resolution. Their advertising I think has implied otherwise
    I for one do not bash. I do, however, point out misleading claims.
    The F700 thing is very bad form.

    No question they have some good cameras.

    **************************
    Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
     
    Mark Herring, Dec 18, 2003
    #9
  10. Bill

    Todd Walker Guest

    Fuji used to advertise their cameras as the interpolated resolution but
    they stopped that about 2 years ago. I guess some people haven't
    forgiven them or they just haven't taken the time to learn the facts.

    I've never owned one but the Fuji S series cameras seem like fantastic
    machines to me...

    --
    __________________________________
    Todd Walker
    Canon 10D
    http://www.toddwalker.net
    http://www.twphotography.net
    __________________________________
     
    Todd Walker, Dec 18, 2003
    #10
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