experience of returning camera to Best Buy

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Racer X, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Racer X

    Tony Cooper Guest


    "Common law", by definition, is unwritten. There is no law that is
    the common law. The term refers to a system of laws based on case
    law, previous rulings, and usage.

    Written laws are "statute law". An act is only illegal if it is
    prohibited by statute law.

    When you are asked for a cite of the law, you are being asked to cite
    the statute where the law was enacted. Absent a written law that
    requires defective items to be returnable, a retailer need not accept
    a defective item for return.

    Now...where's your cite of a statutory law on this subject?
     
    Tony Cooper, Jan 16, 2006
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  2. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    That is just plain wrong.
    Wrong again.
    Yes, but that doesnt mean that the rulings etc
    werent ever written or that it isnt the law either.
    Separate matter entirely.
    Wrong again.
    Wrong again. Most obviously when it ends up in the
    small claims court and the retailer gets forced to
    provide the refund that he was stupid enough to
    refuse with an item that was defective out of the box.
    Never said a word about statutory law.

    And that exists in plenty of jurisdictions anyway.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
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  3. Racer X

    Bob Ward Guest

    Bercause if it's not defective, there isd a restocking fee.

    The poster wanted a refund, not an exchange.

    Try to keep up. The question revolves around a refund, not an
    exchange.

    From www.bestbuy.com:


    2005 Holiday Return Policy - Extended Return Dates
    (for purchases between November 1, 2005 - December 24, 2005)

    Returning holiday gifts — Shop worry-free this holiday season knowing
    your gifts are covered by our Holiday Return Policy. Purchases made
    between Tuesday, November 1, 2005 and Saturday, December 24, 2005
    qualify for our Holiday Return Policy and may be returned anytime
    prior to Tuesday, January 24, 2006.

    Exceptions:
    Desktop and notebook computer purchases are not included in the
    extended Holiday Return Policy

    Projector, camcorder, radar detector, printer, monitor and digital
    camera returns must be completed by Sunday, January 8, 2006

    Purchases made in Canada must be returned and price-matched in
    Canadian stores only


    Best Buy Retail Store Return Policy

    30-day Return Period
    We accept returns or exchanges 30 days from the original purchase.
    Please review the details below.

    14-day Return Period
    We accept returns or exchanges 14 days from the original purchase on
    computers, monitors, printers, notebook computers, projectors,
    camcorders, digital cameras and radar detectors.

    Restocking Fee
    Unless defective, a restocking fee of 15% will be charged on opened
    notebook computers, projectors, camcorders, digital cameras, radar
    detectors, GPS/navigation and in-car video systems. Unless defective,
    a restocking fee of 25% will be charged on special order products,
    including appliances.

    Missing Item or Damaged Product Fee
    A missing item or damaged product fee will be charged for any product
    missing the original box, packaging material, contents, accessories
    and/or manuals (i.e., any product not in "like new" condition).

    Return and Exchange Requirements
    Your original receipt is required for all returns, exchanges, price
    matches and warranty repair services. All returns, exchanges and price
    adjustments must be made in the country of original purchase. For cash
    purchases over $250 and check purchases over $100, your refund will be
    issued by check from our corporate office within 14 business days of
    the return.

    Personal Data
    Please remove all personal data (e.g., computer or wireless phone
    data, videotapes) from any returned or exchanged products. Best Buy is
    not responsible for any personal data left on or in these items.

    Nonreturnable Items
    These items include labor and/or installation services; consumable
    items such as phone cards, gift cards, food and drink; or items that
    are damaged or abused. Opened computer software, movies, music and
    video games can be exchanged for the identical item but cannot be
    returned for a refund. Any merchandise missing the original Universal
    Product Code (UPC) is available for an even exchange only on the
    identical product.

    Any product that is returned without promotional item(s) included with
    the original transaction (e.g., buy TV, get free DVD player; buy TV,
    get free gift card; or buy TV, get DVD player for half off) will have
    the value of the promotional item deducted from the refund amount.

    Any product that was purchased when a mail-in rebate was available on
    the purchase is subject to having the amount of the rebate deducted
    from the refund amount.

    Policy varies in Hawaii. See store for complete details.

    Best Buy reserves the right to deny any return.
     
    Bob Ward, Jan 16, 2006
  4. I couldn't agree more!

    I'm also *extremely* pleased to see that not every contributor to this
    thread is a mindless sheeple. There's hope for us consumers yet. ;)
     
    Scott en Aztlán, Jan 16, 2006
  5. And that, of course, justifies treating all customers like criminals
    until proven otherwise.

    Don't be surprised if one day Best Buy installs a holding cell you get
    to wait in while they determine whether or not your return is
    "legitimate" and, if the decision comes down against you, not only
    will they confiscate your property but you get to wait in the cell
    until the paddy wagon shows up. And y'all will no doubt defend BB for
    doing it.
     
    Scott en Aztlán, Jan 16, 2006
  6. May be a good idea considering how much fraud and stolen merchandise is
    "returned" to stores every day. Once all the criminals are locked up, the
    rest of us can easily take back our defective and otherwise returnable items
    readily.

    The OP wanted a refund, not a replacement. That is what the shoplifters ask
    for and immediately puts the store owner on alert to take extra care. Not
    all criminals look like thieves either. Some look like sweet, cute,
    innocent people, like you and me.

    I have a couple of HP ink cartridges I can no longer use. I figured I'd give
    them away. One is a #49 that is at least four years old. One of the people
    I made the offer too could not understand why I just don't return it to the
    store. If I bought it a couple of weeks ago, I'd agree, but four years is
    pushing it. I'd rather give it away.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Jan 16, 2006
  7. Racer X

    miles Guest


    Best Buy is just horrible all the way around. I went into Best Buy to
    buy a $1500 laptop they had on sale. I went to the computer dept. and
    said I'd like to buy one. The computer salesperson said he'd be right
    with me as soon as he finished with one other customer. Well, he
    finished with that one, then helped another. I asked again and was told
    to wait. Then the salesperson took off somewhere. After waiting a
    total of 30 minutes I went to the front of the store to ask for a
    manager and told that person I would like to buy a laptop for $1500
    thats on sale but could not get help. The manager told me to go back to
    the computer desk and wait for a salesperson to help me. I left and
    bought it elsewhere and have never been back to Best Buy.
     
    miles, Jan 16, 2006
  8. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    The Real Bev wrote:

    Personally I appreciate the humor in his idea, as I've met clerks (as well as others)
    who would surely better the world with their absence. Perhaps others are taking him a
    bit too seriously.

    In his particular scenario, though, a crime has definitely been committed when he
    verbalizes a credible threat. Since somebody trying to return merchandise and getting
    agitated when they are given a hard time isn't a credible threat of assault or
    burglary the shaking hand in his pocket isn't a criminal act as long as he doesn't
    offer up an intent to threaten anybody. Of course that doesn't mean he won't be
    convicted, either by a jury or a bystander.

    --
    Steve

    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
     
    Steve, Jan 16, 2006
  9. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    quietguy wrote:

    That's clearly an example of the law run amok. Why should an angry customer be
    arrested just because a store clerk is an extraordinary pussy? Laws should be based
    on people's actions, not other people's fears.

    --
    Steve

    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
     
    Steve, Jan 16, 2006
  10. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    Store policy is always trumped by the law, and there isn't any disagreement that the
    law requires them to make good on defective merchandise. The law doesn't say they
    have to offer a refund, so if the customer wants a refund instead of an exchange the
    store is welcome to charge a restocking fee if that is their usual policy. In the
    case of an exchange there isn't much reason to force the customer to demonstrate the
    defect. If the store does insist that the customer prove the defect and the customer
    is unable to do so on the spot the store will be very sorry if the customer does it
    in small claims court. Since the law requires them to make good I'd say the onus is
    on the store to show that there isn't any requirement to fix the problem becaue the
    problem doesn't exist.

    In the case of the OP, it sounds like he was given a refund when the store was
    entitled to just replace the camera, keep their profit, and return the defective
    camera to the manufacturer. The store may have made him jump through some hoops, but
    it sounds like they did him a favor.



    --
    Steve

    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
     
    Steve, Jan 16, 2006
  11. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Wrong. They cant 'restock' a defective good.
    Wrong again. Any operation with a clue wont
    foist a defective item onto the next customer.
    Just as true when the customer requires a refund when they
    have decided that the goods arent of merchantable quality
    and that is the reason they dont want an exchange.
    And legally they are obliged to take reasonable steps to ensure
    that defective goods arent foisted on the next customer. When
    the customer returning the goods has said that the goods are
    defective, its the store's responsibility to check that claim.
    That is legally just plain wrong too when the OP decided after
    finding quite a few reports of the same problem he found with the
    camera he received that the design is not of merchantably quality.
    They are legally welcome to do that with goods not of merchantable quality.
    No they didnt, they were stupid enough to make it hard for the OP
    to get what he is legally entitled to, and as a result have had their
    stupid approach exposed to quite a few other potential customers.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  12. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    That is just plain wrong in many jurisdictions. ALL it takes
    is for a reasonable sales monkey to feel threatened, legally.

    And he isnt 'offering up' either.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  13. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    I think that should be, "...An other alternative..." to a policy of
    actually checking for the defect being real.
    In the case at hand, we are discussing a return *for refund*. That
    means a return of the purchase price, based on the item being
    defective. This costs the retailer money, which must be made up
    somewhere, and the usual way this is done is to charge the customer
    base more, which no one really wants.
    Thus, the need to keep such return to a minimum.
    Some stores, like Fry's Electronics, have a 30-day, no questions asked
    return policy. Thinking this doesn't increase costs to the consumer is
    indicative of a lack of understanding of basic economics.
    Using Fry's as the examp[le again, they have a series of workstations
    at the entrance, to handle returns. The people manning these stations
    are (somewhat) skilled in recognizing and troubleshooting problems in
    the products Fry's sells, and there are specialists available to help
    out. In many cases (I've seen this) they can help a customer
    understand how to use whatever device is the cause of a return for
    defect, and in others (most) they can verify the problem. Fyr's does a
    lot of business,and I seriously doubt they'd use this system if it
    didn't help their bottom line. (I often wonder why the customer is
    willing to put up with this system, because they can (and I have)
    simply say, "I don't want this" and get a refund. See below.)
    BestBuy, OTOH, doesn't use this system. While I have no access to
    their think tank at the top, I can safely surmise that they don't use
    this system for a reason. Possibly it's because they have a different
    customer base, and they figure it's better for them to do away with
    the immediate check, because they figure their customer base will be
    put off by such a check. Seeing he comments here, this may well be
    right. Different stores must take into account their intended target
    demographics, and customize their policies to fit that base. If that
    means treating their customers like idiots, while telling them that
    they are actually very smart (for shopping at BestBuy, for example),
    so be it. (Like idiots, in the sense that they really shouldn't bother
    their little heads with things like *instructions*; the store will
    just take the items back, and charge more to take up the costs.)
    The two policies (Fry's and BestBuy) seem similar, but they aren't. At
    Fry's it takes only a few minutes to determine if there really are
    problems, at a relatively low cost per incident. BestBuy. OTOH,
    accepts far more returns; on a per-incident basis, I suspect this
    costs much more to the consumer.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  14. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Not the way you report it, no.
    Got a cite?
    Got a cite?
    Or is this just the way *you* think it ought to be, so it is?
    So far, nothing to indicate otherwise.
    Got a cite?
    Got a cite?
    You're so sure this is true, it should be easy to provide a cite.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  15. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Keeping to the subject at hand (a customer bringing in an item,
    coaiming it's defective, for a refund, in a store that will only
    accept such if the product is actually defective), the law (at least
    in Arizona) does place the onus of proving a defect exists on the
    customer.
    I've seen this explained in small claims court several times.
    The fact that a law requires defective items to be accepted by a store
    for refund does not require the store to prove the defect or lack of
    defect. The fact that some stores take this upon themselves is not
    because the law requires it.
    I agree with this.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  16. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Personally, I have found CompUSA to be far worse than BestBuy.
    It took a Federal law to get them to post prices on the shelf or
    product (literally). Their staffing level is totally inadequate. And
    the staff seems to be instructed to tell everyone with a question to
    go to the customer service counter. The return/refund counter is
    usually overwhelmed.
    And, to top it off, their prices are no bargain, either. But they do
    advertise a lot.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  17. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Rita, you seem to exhibit an interesting quality: when caught, you
    immediatly act as though you were right, change course, and drive on.

    Yes, he got a refund (which is what I needed to point out was his
    initial request, not an exchange as you said), and I've pointed out in
    this thread that, indeed, he got his refund, and in 20 minutes
    (including a wait in line) which I don't think is so bad.
    It's a non-sequitor, as it doesn't address the subject, which is
    getting a refund for a defective product. Your comment was about
    buying online, and the fact that it's less expensive and you get a
    factory sealed box, which you seldom find defective.
    Do you see the difference?
    But here you are describing *your* wants, with no regard for the rest
    of the world.
    They "damn well better have had a "No Refunds" sign posted at the
    register or on the merchandise you are trying to sell me"? Well, you
    can do that as a personal demand before you will do business with
    them, but that doesn't alter how a company does business.
    But you had to call instead of go in person, because you bought
    online, so a call first was a necessity. You couldn't do this in
    person. (You could have emailed, but the experience otherwise would
    have been the same.)
    You don't seem to be understanding the thread at hand, and instead
    seem to be using your own experience as the rule we should use to
    measure things.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  18. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Are you serious?
    In the described (fictional) incident, the *intent* was to threaten
    the clerk's life with a deadly weapon. The result was that the clerk
    was in fact threatened.
    Maybe a few days spent watching coutrooms will help here, as it would
    show that many commonly held ideas about the law are just so wrong.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  19. Huh? Caught in what?
    We've established this in the OP's initial post that he *DID* get a refund.
    The issue I had is with your suggestion of unnecessarily going to
    extraordinary means of "making a tape" to prove a factory defect. Why would
    anyone want or need to do this when the item they bought is either defective
    or doesn't meet the manufacturer's *advertised* claims of fulfilling the
    buyer's needs? Maybe in the OP's case of using the store's policy to gain
    "free rent" of the item. This thread only proves that in *some* stores it
    takes more bitching and feet stomping to get your full refund, but
    ultimately you will.
    How does it *not* address the subject of getting a refund? You're claiming
    on-line merchants never give refunds? My statement takes all this into
    consideration *PLUS* it eliminates or reduces the problems we are discussing
    before they even happen.
    How so? Are you saying a consumer is wrong for wanting to get exactly what
    they were promised and paid for?
    Sure it alters how I do business with a company and it *will* alter how a
    company does business when they have to deal with the problem. Only thing
    they are doing is dragging out the inevitable of giving the customer their
    money back and souring future potential relationships with that customer.
    In some cases this is good since the store benefits, but the good *paying*
    customers that get caught up in this and refuse to spend any more money in
    that store result in a loss for that merchant. Best Buy and Circuit City
    lost me as a good customer. Yes, I do spend a lot so they really did screw
    the pooch on this one.
    It's the same means to the end using a different form of communication.
    What's unreasonable about calling a merchant and civilly discussing an issue
    with them? Personally, I find it more pleasant dealing with some merchants
    over the phone or via e-mail than dealing with untrained teenage drones
    face-to face.
    I do understand and I have offered a viable solution to avoid this nonsense
    before it happens. Do you think that our favorite camera merchants such as
    B&H, Adorama, and Cameta would get the high praise they get by using Best
    Buy and Circuit City's tactics?







    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jan 16, 2006
  20. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Not responding to the content of the post you're responding to,
    instead changing it to something else.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
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