experience of returning camera to Best Buy

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Racer X, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Your problem. It should be obvious that the detail with commercial
    transactions has been around for a hell of a lot longer than statute law.
    Have a look at when the first of the statute law appeared.

    Its even arguable that stuff like the talmud is a form of common law.
    The UCC is the most obvious example with the US.
    Easy to claim. Have fun explaining the UCC.
    Dont need one on that either.
    Cites aint that easy with decisions in the small claims court.
    They dont get listed on the net for example.
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
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  2. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Its more complicated than that, most obviously when that approach
    sees more customers use their stores, because of that policy.

    That may well see the increased volume that pays
    for policy so there is no need to increase the price.

    And the other economic factor is that particularly with low end items
    like toasters etc, you have to factor in the fact that you can dispense
    with knowledgable staff and just use cheap checkout monkeys in
    your store, so there is a real sense in which there is a tradeoff
    between paying more for knowledgeable staff and that sort of policy.

    Its nothing like as black and white as you are claiming there.

    I personally do use stores that have that sort of policy when it
    isnt clear when in the store that the item will do the job I require.
    That way when you do get it home and read the manual, and try
    to use it for what you want to do, and it doesnt do it as well as
    you require, you can just return it for a full refund if you want.
    Presumably some of the customers prefer some assistence
    with how to use the product than a full refund and have to go
    and find something else which may have the same problem.
    Its never as completely analysable as you are suggesting.

    Its impossible to quantify how may customers will be pissed
    off enough by a hard nosed no returns unless defective policy
    with the store demanding that the customer prove that the
    goods are defective to never bother with the store again, and
    the effect of them bad mouthing the store to everyone they know.
    Or when there are a variety of ways of doing
    things, its hardly surprising that some stores
    do it one way and others do it another way.

    And get to wear the result of that policy over time too.
    Or you get some 'managers' with different attitudes to others.
    Or realise that that sort of customer is very common, particularly
    with the usual rather poorly written instructions, and everyone
    has to deal with that problem, so it isnt store specific.
    No evidence for that in the prices.
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
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  3. Racer X

    miles Guest

    I find both stores horrible. Their customer service and sales staff is
    unknowledgable and/or non-existant. Most of their stuff is low-end at
    full retail prices.
    miles, Jan 17, 2006
  4. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    They both specialize in 'consumer' stuff, which is, IMO, low-end by
    definition. By this, I mean the geeks don't shop there unless the ads
    offer something they can use at a truly low price. Otherwise, they
    stay away in droves.
    Bill Funk, Jan 17, 2006
  5. I have done much better with mom and pop places. I purchased my
    current computer 18 months ago. The store had various computers on their
    list but the owner was happy to mix and match. He even talked me down on
    a few items based on my needs.
    I have had to call him twice. Both times he came to the phone and
    walked me through the problem.
    By the way, I ordered the computer on a Saturday morning and was
    using it that evening. Saved at least $100 off of similar from the
    "discount" stores.
    George Grapman, Jan 17, 2006
  6. Racer X

    Keith Guest

    Did you expect otherwise? Competent electronics types don't come for
    $8/hr. One can always do better online and usually in other local stores
    (harder in some areas than others), but some insist on instant

    BBY's checkout turns me way off and I don't even think about walking into
    Circuit City (the only two in the area).
    Keith, Jan 17, 2006
  7. I tried three large stores before buying my computer and an indie
    place. Circuit City must have been on strike as there were no employees
    in the computer area. CompUSA had numerous packages. I only needed a
    computer and not a monitor. The clerk first told me that the package
    could not be broken up and then the manager offered such a meager
    discount for the computer w/o monitor that I thought and had not heard
    him correctly. Calls to Best Buy never got a live person.
    George Grapman, Jan 17, 2006
  8. Racer X

    Keith Guest

    I've built my own for at least a decade. One can ger much better quality
    for not much more money. Upgrades are far easier (possible) too.
    Keith, Jan 17, 2006
  9. Racer X

    Bob Ward Guest

    Unfortunately, part of the downside to Frys policy is that returned
    merchandise often gets repackaged and replaced on the shelves at full
    price - even with parts missing. I shop at Frys often, and have used
    the "no questions asked" return policy for defective or manifestly
    unsuitable products whose deficiencies could only be discovered in
    attempting to use them, but I always make sure that any product I buy
    there has never been previously returned. As a matter of fact, if too
    many of the product have been returned, I take that as a sign to look
    at a different product.
    Bob Ward, Jan 17, 2006
  10. Yeah, right. Once those holding cells are installed, they will become
    permanent. Just like the toll roads that are supposed to revert to
    freeways after the original construction bonds are paid off, but
    somehow manage to find some trumped-up excuse to keep the toolbooths
    raking in the bucks.
    Scott en Aztlán, Jan 17, 2006
  11. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    Of course I'm serious. Did you read the exchange above?
    You mean the incident that started this sub-thread, but is unrelated to the exchange

    the *intent* was to threaten

    I feel harassed and threatened by your post. Kindly let me know what jurisdiction you
    were in when you wrote it, so that I can file a complaint with the authorities.


    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
    Steve, Jan 18, 2006
  12. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    Feel free to cite a law that requires stores to issue refunds instead of to remedy
    the problem.
    It may not be a good idea, but there's plenty of evidence that stores can and do
    restock defective merchandise. There is no legal requirement for a restocking fee to
    be directly connected to the physical process of restocking the merchandise. It's
    simply an industry term for a fee that is charged when merchandise is returned.
    Plenty of places do exactly that. A store doesn't have to put any returned
    merchandise back on the shelves. Deciding what goes back on the shelves and what
    doesn't needn't involve the customer who returns an item they claim is defective.

    We're discussing defective items, not items that don't do what they are claimed to
    do. If the law only requires the store to correct the defect, and they do so, the
    customer isn't entitled to a full refund if the store charges a restocking fee.
    It's certainly a good idea, but there's nothing that says they must do so. Have you
    ever bought a record that had a skip in it? Have you ever heard of a store that
    actually checked?

    That decision isn't up to the purchaser. He got a defective camera, and all the store
    was legally obligated to do was send him home with a working camera.

    So far there has been no evidence to support a claim that he was entitled to a refund.
    I know. *I* certainly wouldn't do business with a merchant if some anonymous internet
    user claimed they got bad service.


    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
    Steve, Jan 18, 2006
  13. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    This explains a lot of your problem. It's arguable that some common law has evolved
    from religious teachings, but nobody in recent history has been brought before a
    court and charged with violating Ezekiel 4:23.


    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
    Steve, Jan 18, 2006
  14. Racer X

    Frank ess Guest

    The little bit of law language I know about this
    what-constitutes-an-assault business mentions "... a reasonable fear
    of physical harm..." Your fear may be real to you, but it seems to me
    it is anything but reasonable.

    One way to escape an assault, rendering the allegation more credible,
    is to retreat, withdraw, flee. That is a real indication of fear. I'll
    bet you will not retreat, withdraw, or flee, based on any Usenet post.
    If you do, it is just another example of histrionics as a means of
    pleasuring yourself.
    Frank ess, Jan 18, 2006
  15. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Pathetic, really.
    That's not the talmud, you silly little pig ignorant clown.

    And Israel does have religious 'courts' even now.

    So do the moslems.

    And even the anglicans.
    Rod Speed, Jan 18, 2006
  16. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    The Australian federal Trade Practices Act and every
    single one of the equivalent legislation in the states
    and territorys, often called the Sale of Goods Act.

    And like I said, in the US its mostly the UCC and the common
    law established by the various small claims courts there.
    Irrelevant to what is legal, stupid.
    There is however a legal requirement that goods sold must be of
    merchantable quality in every single modern first world jurisdiction.
    And its been that way for hundreds of years too.
    More legally pig ignorant drivel, typical of fools like you.
    They're the ones that dont have a clue, fuckwit.
    Thats what goods that arent of merchantable
    quality are, when they are that out of the box, fool.
    That's fitness for purpose, fool.
    Wrong with goods that arent of merchantable quality.

    Thats what the law requires with goods that fail within warranty.
    Wrong, as always.
    Wrong, as always.
    They dont need to when they are getting
    a significant number of returns on that basis.
    Wrong again.
    Wrong, as always.
    None for your legally pig ignorant claim that he isnt either.
    Wota fucking wanker.
    Rod Speed, Jan 18, 2006
  17. Racer X

    Ernie Klein Guest

    Exactly. Many high volume, low margin, stores do not want to deal with
    reselling anything that is returned. They want every customer to
    receive a factory packaged, new item off the shelf, and not present an
    image of a store that resells someone else's returned goods. Many high
    volume stores have contracts with manufactures to allow them to return
    for credit any items that their customers return to them.

    The so called 'restocking' fee, is to cover the stores cost of returning
    the item to the manufacture, obtaining a new item from the manufacture
    and 'restock' the item in their inventory.

    'Restocking' does not mean, or imply, that the same physical item that
    is returned by the customer, defective or not, is the same item that is
    Some stores do indeed repackage and resell the exact same item that was
    returned. Fry's was well know for doing just that. They were very good
    at repackaging so that you couldn't tell if the item was new or
    returned. There were lots of cases of finding foreign objects (or not
    finding missing parts) in what was sold at a new item. I, myself
    purchased a 14kb modem (shows how long ago it was :) that was missing
    the install CD, and had margin notes penciled in the instruction manual.

    If memory serves me right, the consumer fraud division of the Santa
    Clara District Attorney's office received so many complaints of Fry's
    selling used (returned) products as new, that they were going to take
    legal action.

    If I remember right, Fry's settled out of court and agreed to place
    labels on all returned, repackaged merchandise stating that it is
    returned merchandise. They usually offer the returns at a lower price,
    but not always.


    "There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
    suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

    Have you done your backup today?
    Ernie Klein, Jan 18, 2006
  18. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Irrelevant to what should be done with DEFECTIVE GOODS.
    Mindless stuff. The customer shouldnt have to pay
    a cent WITH DEFECTIVE GOODS. Thats the law.
    Rod Speed, Jan 18, 2006
  19. Racer X

    Bob Ward Guest

    I doubt if you've ever set foot in Frys. They repackage stuff and
    slap a blue-and-white label on it that identifioes it as a customer
    return, and put it back on the shelf at the same price.
    Bob Ward, Jan 19, 2006
  20. Racer X

    miles Guest

    Yep, they do put a sticker on it. When returning an item at Fry's they
    take a quick glance at it, close the box and put a sticker on it and
    back on the shelf it goes. Even if I tell them the item doesn't work
    they still have done that. I have heard if it's returned twice then
    they will test it or send it back to the manufacturer. Customers are
    the stores quality control it seems.
    miles, Jan 19, 2006
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