Extended warranties are worthless, nearly

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Rich, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    A study in the U.S. (was on news radio)
    found that the vast majority of problems happen
    within the first year. So, as always, the advise is NOT
    to pay for an extended warranty.
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Dec 16, 2005
    #1
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  2. Rich

    eawckyegcy Guest

    Once again, Rich states things which have been known for years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_warranty

    (et al)

    About the only thing worthy of an "extended warranty" are many makes of
    car made by American companies, and perhaps whatever it was that
    created what passes for a brain for Rich.

    But this too has been known for years.
     
    eawckyegcy, Dec 16, 2005
    #2
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  3. Rich

    Celcius Guest

    Rich,
    I beg to differ. You are generally right about extended warranties.
    However, beware of generalisations.
    In the case of digital cameras, I personally found out over the years
    (my fourth now - a Canon Rebel XT) that such a warranty is worth it. My
    last camera quit on me a few days before the warranty expired. I was on
    vacation then. I was lucky that Canon accepted to repair it under
    warranty. The previous one gave me a problem almost 2 years after I
    bought it. I take care of my cameras. Everyone who knows me will attest
    to this. But as they say: "shit happens". So this time around, I took
    an extended warranty. I hope, as I do for life insurance, that the
    "warranty" will have been taken for nothing. That's what insurance is
    all about.Cheers,
    Marcel
     
    Celcius, Dec 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Rich

    Al Dykes Guest


    Agreed that extended warranties are generally wasted money.

    The exception IMO, is a laptop computer used for important stuff, ie
    making money or working to drop-dead deadlines, and then, only with a
    manufacturer's warranty. The store warranty is crap.

    It's easy to say "I'll buy a new machine when this one dies" but the
    time and expense of picking a new laptop, buying it, and reinstalling
    all the software and data is not something you want to in year 2 or
    year 3 if you don't have to. Then there's the accessories you've
    bought. After two years you can't expect to buy an identical model. A
    manufacturer's warranty will garantee identical replacement.
     
    Al Dykes, Dec 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Rich

    phk Guest

    I think it depends on who is issuing the warranty.

    If it's issued by a third party, not the manufacturer, odds are the
    issuer won't be around to honor it when due.

    Recognize that the extended warranty IS an additional source of profit
    for the manufacturer - i.e. they wouldn't sell it if they didn't expect
    to pay out less than they receive.
     
    phk, Dec 16, 2005
    #5
  6. Rich

    Benwa Guest

    In the case of digital cameras,Mack warranties are sold everywhere,and are
    totaly worthless.I know of dozens of cases where they refused to honor the
    warranties.I can only remember 1 case where they honored it for a small
    repair.
     
    Benwa, Dec 16, 2005
    #6
  7. They may calculate to make loss on the warranty, but reap overall
    winnings through increased sales of the camera due to their long
    warranty period.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Dec 16, 2005
    #7
  8. Rich

    eawckyegcy Guest

    Generalizations -- patterns -- are what make you human.
    I have a very large "investment" in cameras. To date, I've made
    exactly one (1) warranty claim, and it was made under the normal
    manufacturer warranty. I've had two other repairs made. One Canon did
    gratis, and another cost me $150 CDN. How much would I have spent over
    the years on "extended warranties" for my collection of 3 cameras, 6
    lenses, 2 teleconverters, and two pairs of binoculars? Doubtless a
    hell of a lot more.
    ****, most anyone will make the repair under warranty in this
    situation. "Luck" has zip to do with it: basic customer service and
    reputation maintenance is what is happening.
    When people tell you that "extended warranties are a waste of money",
    they are telling you that, in the end, the expected value(*) of the EW
    is _LESS_ than the amount you pay for it. Or, equivalently, those who
    buy them are fools: absolutely no different from "investing" the money
    in a casino with a wickedly high house advantage. But at least in a
    casino, you get some weird kind of entertainment. Maybe even some
    "comps".

    (*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value
     
    eawckyegcy, Dec 16, 2005
    #8
  9. Rich

    eawckyegcy Guest

    What the hell?! Even if you did receive an identical copy, you still
    have to "reinstall all the software and data", so what have you saved
    by purchasing a worthless piece of paper? Even worse, your
    precondition of working to "drop dead deadlines" pretty well demands
    that you be prepared to "reinstall all the software and data" at a
    moments notice, because a moment is about all you are going to get.
    How is this mighty EW going to help? It seems to me that the money
    spent on the EW would be better spent on redundancy, backup/restoration
    software, and other matters directly relevant to the problem.
     
    eawckyegcy, Dec 16, 2005
    #9
  10. Rich

    ian lincoln Guest

    I don't buy desktop warranties but i do buy laptop ones. I build my own
    desktops and many parts come with 3 or 5 years warranty. They seem to be
    skimping on harddisk warranties these days though.
     
    ian lincoln, Dec 16, 2005
    #10
  11. Rich

    ian lincoln Guest

    I bought from a company just because they offer 18months instead of 12. Its
    european law that warranties are for 2 years now. There are also 'fit for
    its purpose' laws. Guy got his washing machine repaired after a year cos
    the judge agreed if you pay £500 for a washing machine you expect it to work
    for more than 1 year.

    Had to have two repairs on laptop. 2nd one was to repair a new fault caused
    by the first repair. Won't be buying compaq/hp again. Should have built it
    properly in the first place.

    I must admit that i bought the jessops warranty for my camera cos its new
    for old. As there may not be replacement 300D around i should get a 350D
    instead. Also accidental damage insurance was included. The whole cover
    was same price as canons own warranty of merely extended warranty.
     
    ian lincoln, Dec 16, 2005
    #11
  12. Rich

    cimawr Guest

    Even if you did receive an identical copy, you still
    The most glaringly obvious thing you've saved is the purchase price
    of the new laptop.
     
    cimawr, Dec 16, 2005
    #12
  13. Rich

    eawckyegcy Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roulette

    "In 2004, Ashley Revell of London sold all of his possessions,
    clothing included, and brought US$135,300 to the Plaza Hotel
    in Las Vegas and put it all on "Red" at the roulette table in a
    double-or-nothing bet. The ball landed on "Red 7" and Revell
    walked away with his net-worth doubled to $270,600."

    So, Mr. cimawr, when are you heading over to the Plaza Hotel with your
    life savings?
     
    eawckyegcy, Dec 16, 2005
    #13
  14. Rich

    Sionnach Guest

    I'm not a "Mr". Jump to conclusions much?

    And what you posted is utterly irrelevant to the subject of extended mfrs.
    warranties - or any extended warranty - on laptop computers.

    I'm guessing that you don't actually make your living in a way that
    requires use of a laptop computer in the field. I've had repeated first-hand
    experience of extended warranties being VERY much worth having.
    Most recent experience was two weeks ago - my construction manager's
    laptop had a physical hard drive failure. Her laptop is long out of original
    warranty, but one phone call to Dell had a replacement hard drive on its way
    to us by overnight shipping. Since critical files are backed up to our
    server, she was up and running again in just over 24 hours from the time the
    HD went up. All she lost was some personal photographs that she hadn't
    backed up.
    When you're dealing with government contracts that range from hundreds of
    thousands to well in the millions, and have to do with the safety of the
    public, that sort of speed in getting up and running again is critical.

    The money-losing gamble would be NOT having an extended warranty on the
    computers.
     
    Sionnach, Dec 16, 2005
    #14
  15. Rich

    eawckyegcy Guest

    95-99% of all technical USENET group participants areas are male (the
    ratio equalizes in some of the softer areas). The ones who claim they
    are female are almost always pretenders. This is common knowledge. In
    your case, you offer no hint prior to your claim, and now post-claim,
    offer nothing to back up it up. Bayesian inference then takes hold.
    If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but thats a matter for you to (somehow)
    demonstrate. Good luck!
    A guy complains that he needs an EW because he doesn't want to
    "reinstall software and data".

    I note the non sequitur.

    Someone (you?) then starts saying that it is possible the EW can save
    money.

    I say: anyone can win a bet. Does this mean you should go to a
    casino?

    You miss the point, and now here we are.
    You remember the failures and forget the successes. Almost all EW's
    have a _negative_ expected value. You can google up references galore,
    I can offer testimony, etc. Heck, our little rpds mascot Rich even
    heard it on the radio. What more proof do you need?
    Didn't I mention this in my initial response? Anyways, I see nothing
    about EW's anywhere in your little story. What relevance did they
    have?
    How is the EW helping here? Does the EW make things run faster? Does
    it lubricate the wheels at UPS or FedEx? Or what?
    Laptop disk drives are fungible. If one fails, you don't have a
    replacement shipped "over night" from Bangalore or whereever the hell
    Dell is based, you go to a local store and buy one (30 minutes) -- or,
    in the case of a someone managing a large population of them, the
    sysadmin reachs up and takes a replacement from a shelf and plugs it
    in. Whoo whoo.

    Note how none of this has anything to do with an EW. Indeed, one would
    think an EW would slow this down (phone calls, claims, forms to be
    filled in, overnight shipping, etc), putting the safety of the public
    and your million dollar contracts at risk.
     
    eawckyegcy, Dec 17, 2005
    #15
  16. Rich

    Sionnach Guest

    Uh-huh. Suuuure. Right. Funny that it's the first time I've heard this,
    having been on USENET for about 10 years...

    In
    Y'know, this is one of the silliest statements I've ever seen on USENET -
    and I spend a lot of time in the dog NGs, which are infested by a literal
    maniac.
    It's not a "claim", it's a fact, and there's absolutely no reason I should
    have to "offer something to back it up". It's also completely irrelevant,
    aside from it being amusing when somebody jumps to a conclusion.
    If you want to waste your time worrying about my gender, go google for
    posts I've made on rec.pets.dogs.behavior and r.p.d.breeds. I'm sure if you
    hunt back a ways, you can track one down where I've posted links to the
    Yahoo photo pages where I've post pictures of my dogs in competition, some
    of which also have me in them.
    Some of my posts are under "Sionnach", some are under "Cimawr", some are
    signed with my real first name.

    You've conveniently snipped out the beginning of the sentence, which
    started with a reference to the time and expense of *replacing the laptop*.
    Reinstalling the software is secondary.

    You're deliberately missing the point, which is that when laptops are
    mission-critical, it's worth having insurance on them - which is what EWs
    are.
    If you saw nothing about EW's in the story, I'm afraid you're rather
    lacking in reading comprehension skills. When someone says "I have
    experience with EW's being worth it, here's an example", it's not necessary
    to then spell out in the example itself that repair was effected under the
    EW.
    However, I DID spell it out in the example; which part of "the laptop was
    long out of original warranty" did you fail to understand?
    No, you don't. You can do that with desktops, but not with laptops.

    No claims, no forms to be filled in. One 10-minute phone call, one HD the
    next morning, one laptop back on the road.

    In any case, there's not much point in continuing this, because you're
    clearly not interested in actually having a discussion.
     
    Sionnach, Dec 17, 2005
    #16
  17. Rich

    C J Southern Guest

    Then you'd have heard about not feeding trolls ... :)

    (It makes them obese, and raises their cholesterol levels!)
     
    C J Southern, Dec 17, 2005
    #17
  18. Rich

    C J Southern Guest

    Additionally, if a repair is required under warranty it costs the
    manufacturer a lot less to perform it than it would cost you if you had to
    pay the same manufacturer to do it for you.
     
    C J Southern, Dec 17, 2005
    #18
  19. Rich

    Al Dykes Guest


    And the 5 minutes it takes to swap the hard disk to the new machine.
    (99% of the time the hard disk is OK). If you have a decent backup
    strategy then you can restore to a new disk in a few minutes and go.

    A manufacturer's warranty promises to give you an identical machine
    and if you need, they can give you a contract that promises 4 hour or
    next-day on-site service for some more bucks.

    The third-party warranties I've seen promise you a "compatible" unit
    if the model you have is out of production. That's crap.
     
    Al Dykes, Dec 17, 2005
    #19
  20. Rich

    Nikon User Guest

    Citation, please?
    Like with your claim that about female pretenders.
    No, it's up to you to demonstrate that you're right. Good luck!
     
    Nikon User, Dec 17, 2005
    #20
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