F8 Shoot-In

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    http://www.pbase.com/shootin/f8__be_there

    The Coe Family - Grouping them together, all interesting shots of
    water where it shouldn't be (with one exception), but taken with a
    good eye to what else is in the shot. I hope Mr Sisker sees Martha's
    gristmill photo to see how a shot like this should be composed.

    Atheist Chaplin - Nice sharp shots, but I'm not a car photo person
    unless the car is rusty and pre-WWII. This is excellent use of the
    deliberately tilted horizon.

    Alan Browne - Excellent use of light on the faces, but there's a bit
    too much weight and darkness on the left side of the image.

    Calvin Sambrook - Went 2 for 3. Fun with #1, opportunism with #2, but
    the tires are flats IMO.

    Savageduck- Three for three. The photographer did a good job, but the
    thing that draws the eye is the painting and the painting looks very
    amateurish. Love the dog. The third shot is amusing enough to be a
    good catch.

    Alan Brown - (second series) The police car is cute but not really an
    interesting capture. I can't quite figure out my reaction to the
    photo of the lady. Excellent shot for the top third, but her left
    hand seems out-of-proportion. The lower part is really strange. (No
    offense to the lady intended) If she is not supported by something, I
    assume Alan snapped this off quickly or the lady is a yoga master.

    Tim Conway - Frankly, I think the Coe's pulled off flood pictures
    better. Tighter on the raft might have worked better. I could see
    cropping off the entire right side from the white shed and enough of
    the left to make a square format. The second shot doesn't say
    "flood", but we know from the other pictures that it is "flood".

    Bowser - Love coke machine. That mass of bright color against the
    background is effective. I'd crop the right side with that whitish
    area. It competes with the coke machine. The man on the rocks
    doesn't really have a central point of focus. The flood scene right
    up there with the Coe's shots.

    In flood shots (Coe's and Bowser's) when expected things are in
    unexpected surroundings or conditions, you have a captivating image.

    Furman - Well done, but not all that interesting.

    Durtsch - These are WOW shots. Knowing what was going on helps to
    understand the photos, but the photos work even if you don't know what
    is going on.

    Slightly off-topic, but something that interests me. I use SmugMug as
    my host, and have a black background just as these PBase pages do.
    Since many photos have dark colors at the edges, I always use a white
    border (Select All>Edit>Stroke) I think it makes the photo more
    distinct on the page.

    I don't see others doing do this. Which works best? Border, no
    border, or does it make any difference?
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #1
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  2. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    I might have run the gristmill shot through "Shadows/Highlights" with
    a kick to the midtones in Photoshop. It's not over-exposure of the
    background, but that the sun's behind the building (see the shadow of
    the pine tree) so the face is in shadow. It's the composition,
    though, that I was thinking of in the comparison to your shot.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #2
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  3. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    What particular photo? I do it on all, and was asking about photos in
    general.
    FU restored.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #3
  4. tony cooper

    Tim Conway Guest

    I like your idea of cropping at the white shed. These really were just grab
    shots of the running high Susquehanna River in PA.
    I don't think it really matters. A point to consider is that in museums and
    exhibits, a lot of photos on display have white mats so a white border is in
    pretty good company.
     
    Tim Conway, Apr 14, 2010
    #4
  5. tony cooper

    whisky-dave Guest

    When I used to enter prints mounted on card there was always lots of
    disagreement
    over what looks best, black/white/grey card, should boarders be 1" or should
    the bottom
    boarder be larger to 'support' the picture. Where should the title go top,
    bottom
    justified centre, left or right. Then we went on to what shade or type of
    mount would
    look best for this picture. It seemed to be less about photography and more
    about mount
    making. But it is true the way a picture is mounted can have a significant
    effect.

    ..



     
    whisky-dave, Apr 14, 2010
    #5
  6. tony cooper

    Tim Conway Guest

     
    Tim Conway, Apr 14, 2010
    #6
  7. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    Don't make too much of my comment. Overall, the first impression is
    the faces and they are done superbly. It's when one starts examining
    a photo that things like darker areas stand out.
    Perhaps my reaction is based on seeing a lot of municipally owned
    Smart Cars around here, so the surprise factor is gone.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #7
  8. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    My comment wasn't really about borders in general, but specifically
    borders on a black background web page like SmugMug or PBase. In some
    (but not all) cases, without a border we don't know where the picture
    ends and the background begins. Sure, we do as we take it in, but
    first impressions often form most of our impression.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #8
  9. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    I know that reality doesn't mean much to you, but we really don't know
    which group followers of the Shoot-In read. Cross-posting makes sense
    when the subject matter is of interest to people who enter through
    several doors.

    But have your fun. Re-setting, unlike photography, seems to be
    something you can manage.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 14, 2010
    #9
  10. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : http://www.pbase.com/shootin/f8__be_there
    : ...
    :
    : Savageduck- Three for three. The photographer did a good job, but the
    : thing that draws the eye is the painting and the painting looks very
    : amateurish.

    It's hard to tell about an incomplete painting. I remember a time many years
    ago when the amateur theater group in our town asked my wife to provide them a
    half-completed portrait of Benjamin Franklin. (It was central to the play they
    were doing for some reason I don't recall.) So she roughed out Ben's face on a
    canvass and did about the half the work necessary to complete the picture. The
    result was a slapdash-looking painting with all the main elements but almost
    no detail. But the theater people said no, they didn't mean a completed
    painting; it was supposed to be HALF-completed. They apparently expected a
    fully completed picture of half of Franklin's face, not comprehending that
    that's not how artists work.

    So the fact that the painting in the photograph looks amateurish now may not
    mean that the finished product will be amateurinh as well.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 15, 2010
    #10
  11. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : >
    : >
    : > They apparently expected a fully completed picture of
    : > half of Franklin's face, not comprehending that
    : > that's not how artists work.
    :
    : Depends on the artist. And they were probably thinking of something
    : along the lines of the famous incomplete portrait of G. Washington
    : where the bottom part of the picture looks something like clouds
    : because it was never painted in.
    :
    : http://www.metmuseum.org/special/Gilbert_stuart/images/gs.47.L.jpg

    But Stuart did at least finish GW's face. It appears that he may have been
    planning to farm out the rest of the coat, wall decorations, etc. to one of
    his students but didn't get around to it in time. (He was in good company, of
    course. Painters had been doing that for hundreds of years.)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 16, 2010
    #11
  12. tony cooper

    whisky-dave Guest

    If you can't see what you want in the image then it can't be a very good
    photograph can it ?
    As for value I'm not sure, but we know some of the first photographic images
    ever recorded are valuable but are the good[1] photos ?

    That's when I left the camera club, I understood that when entering a photo
    to be judge you were being judged on the package which included the mount.
    I could see their point but didn't necessarily agree with it.



    [1] missed an 'o' at first which made me thing that a picture of God
    would be very valuable, but it doesn't say much about the photo.
     
    whisky-dave, Apr 16, 2010
    #12
  13. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    The camera club I belong to now accepts only digital images and
    projects them on a large screen. The background is black, so I put a
    3 pixel white stroked selection border on submissions. The club
    averages 80-some submissions each competition night, and the
    submissions with this thin border often - in my opinion - show better.

    As to being judged by the "package" (as W-D says), of course we are.
    The package is what the viewer sees. It's the first impression and
    it's the overall image we take in.

    If you take a sharp photograph of a (whatever), most of the time you
    crop it to best advantage and that is also part of the package.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 16, 2010
    #13
  14. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 01:20:03 -0400, tony cooper
    :
    : >http://www.pbase.com/shootin/f8__be_there
    : >
    :
    : >
    : >Bowser - Love coke machine. That mass of bright color against the
    : >background is effective. I'd crop the right side with that whitish
    : >area. It competes with the coke machine. The man on the rocks
    : >doesn't really have a central point of focus. The flood scene right
    : >up there with the Coe's shots.
    :
    : The contrast of the Coke machine against the background was what drew
    : me to that shot. Of course, if I was able to get there during the fire
    : it would have been quite a shot, but the FD closed the roads due to
    : the intensity of the fire.
    :
    : I guess the guy on the rocks worked better when I was there, watching
    : him and his wife ignore the warnings of many of us and get (nearly)
    : knocked off the rocks by a big roller. It was cold and windy, they got
    : soaked, we were all amused.
    :
    : The water shot worked for me because of the uniqueness of the
    : situation, and the colors. Somewhat flat, but kind of "earthy" and
    : muted. The water is down now, fortunately. I posted a copy of this pic
    : in the local general store, and got about 500 requests for prints. The
    : locals love floods, I guess.

    I liked that picture a lot. It particularly complemented the ones my wife and
    I submitted, because we didn't manage to get both a raging waterfall and
    actual flooding in the same shot.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 17, 2010
    #14
  15. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    In all of life we are judged by the package. While there are exceptions, how
    far would you get when applying for a job wearing an unkempt dirty shirt,
    with food stains all over it.

    How much more do we pay for the same food when it is "presented," instead of
    slopped on a plate. Think sushi bar, v. cafeteria. etc.

    OTOH I certainly agree that camera club "standards" can inhibit art.
     
    Peter, Apr 17, 2010
    #15
  16. tony cooper

    Peter Guest



    I can't find my shot, but I saw a sign that said: "Beware of ticks. They
    bite infectious people."
    When while pointing to the sign, I told a park ranger I was safe, because I
    had no infections, he had no clue as to what I was saying.
     
    Peter, Apr 17, 2010
    #16
  17. tony cooper

    Peter Guest



    Bob_Coe1 creates an interesting mood. I would like it a lot better if the
    foreground on the left was less bright. somehow I think it's distracting. At
    first I had a problem with the ladder on the building, but decided it tells
    a story.
     
    Peter, Apr 17, 2010
    #17
  18. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    The only requirement for photos submitted to my camera club's
    competitions are that the longest side cannot exceed 1400 pixels and
    that the file not be larger than 1 MB. Borders are not mentioned in
    the rules.

    My own choice is based on the background that the photo will appear
    over. If I know the background will be black (PBase, SmugMug, DGrin),
    I use a thin 3 pixel white border. If the background is white (an
    internet link) I may use a black 3 pixel border.

    Take a look at Calvin's tires in the Shoot-In. At first glance, the
    tires are unnaturally flattened at the right and the left. Then one
    realizes that the image does not include the full tires. A thin white
    border would improve that image in my opinion. The viewer would take
    in just the intended of what is on the screen.
    Our projections have a black background. Imagine that photo of
    Sharpton on a black background. A thin white border would set out the
    photo where it would become lost on a black background

    Our entries are digital only. Last competition night I would say that
    in the critique of at least a third of the entries cropping
    suggestions were made. Maybe in more.
     
    tony cooper, Apr 17, 2010
    #18
  19. tony cooper

    Peter Guest

    Peter, Apr 17, 2010
    #19
  20. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : : > http://www.pbase.com/shootin/f8__be_there
    : >
    : > The Coe Family - Grouping them together, all interesting shots of
    : > water where it shouldn't be (with one exception), but taken with a
    : > good eye to what else is in the shot. I hope Mr Sisker sees Martha's
    : > gristmill photo to see how a shot like this should be composed.
    :
    : Bob_Coe1 creates an interesting mood. I would like it a lot better if the
    : foreground on the left was less bright. somehow I think it's distracting. At
    : first I had a problem with the ladder on the building, but decided it tells
    : a story.

    I couldn't figure out the function of the ladder. The basement, if any, of the
    house was obviously flooded, but I don't think the first floor was. The ladder
    seemed to be there in case one had to get in and out through the second floor
    window, but in those conditions the only way to get to the house at all would
    have been by boat.

    If I'd had my druthers, I think I'd have cropped the ladder out. But I would
    have lost too much of the house.

    A week (and a couple more inches of rain) after I took that picture, my wife
    and I went back to the spot to see if anything had changed. (She tells me that
    in the meantime every TV station in Boston had been there.) The water has
    actually a little higher and had come around to the left of the house. But the
    highway department had put out big orange cones, etc., so the photo ops were
    not as good.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 18, 2010
    #20
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