film has one more nail in it's coffin

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by kosh, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. kosh

    kosh Guest

    hmm,

    looks like film is one step closer to being a thing of the past.

    with all items at some airports required to go in checked baggage... it
    pretty much means x-ray damage will be the norm, even for slower speeds.

    I called melbourne airport yesterday... they confirmed lead lined bags
    will lead to an intense x-ray scan of a suspicious 'dark' object.....
    making matters worse for the film.

    in international travel terms.... looks like digital hit at the right time.

    a coupel of years ago, i was travelling to New Zealand to ski on that
    white fluffy stuff we are seeing less of nowadays.

    I was shooting digital, but jsut for fun I through a 400iso in checked
    luggage and one in carry-on (a thing of the past?).

    only going to NZ and back... the film in the checked baggage showed
    signs of damage. On a eauropean trip through multiple x-ray machines...
    or the US with ihgh intensity scanners, it will be unlikely to escape
    without some effect!

    kosh
     
    kosh, Aug 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. kosh

    Sandy Barrie Guest

    Hi,

    I think it will be a some time yet before 35mm ends..

    Solely because ofthe Cinema industry in India, which produces more
    Movies than Hollywood and the british film industry combined... It will
    be a long time before their small country cinemas may ever be digital.

    they may however change to 16mm, but I doubt it..

    And remember when companies like Spiratone bulk loaded Kodak Movie 35mm
    negative film in normal 35mm cassettes.. the reviews on it were better
    than the "normal" camera film...

    Companies like Orwo are now being flooded with orders for B&W especially
    in sheet sizes.. some companies in America are ordering complete
    container loads.. and selling them for far more than the old film
    prices, no doubt to "art photographers".. hahah

    As for travelling with film, when I went to New York in 1999, i simply
    bought my film there, and had it processed there before I left... avoids
    SOME of the X ray problems.. but I was not allowed up the Empire State
    building or the Statue of Libery, as I was carring Infrared film, and
    told them so, and refused to have it Xrayed, and they refunded my money,
    very chearfully... (besides Fay Wray had escaped)

    When I went to France in 1980 Film in Paris was over twice the cost of
    here... And luckily I had bought a lot in London...

    4"x5" and 120, however are doomed.. especialy with some large format
    cameras putting the nails in the coffin.. Eg. Pentax announcing the end
    of the 6x7, on one hand, and other, large format cameras simply pricing
    themseles of the map, for all but the BRW top 100... For the cost of a
    Medium format with a digital back, you could buy a large chunk of the
    complete Canon digital outfit, including a pile of lenses..

    Regards

    Sandy
     
    Sandy Barrie, Aug 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. kosh

    kosh Guest

    agreed... but in a very different form. and less than ideal for
    international travel. I suspect the majors will either drop it... or
    continue in a niche... just to keep their name in it.

    kodak CEO has already said film will not be worth his attention in
    coming years.

    brands like Rollei have actually STARTED b&w film production.... I think
    we will see more of this.
    In the same interview with the Kodak CEO mentioned abouve... he said the
    movie industry was still the largest consumer of film. Though I think
    digital has raised pletny of eyebrows.... and makes the special effects
    thingy cheaper, quicker and with less quality loss.



    As for travelling with film, when I went to New York in 1999, i simply
    but how many people are prepared to carry the extra weight of prints...
    and try an unfamilliar lab..... hell many people don't understand the
    whole x-ray thing only effects unprocessed film!

    in photographics.... that was a very very very long time ago.
    agreed. not to mention more and more digital printers would not know
    what 120 film is..... the overall skill & knowledge level in the
    industry has plummeted. I almost hired a job applicant just because they
    could colour analyse off the neg...no need for a postivie imageon the
    screen! jsut like any lab used to have to!

    kosh
     
    kosh, Aug 14, 2006
    #3
  4. kosh

    Phred Guest

    How well do the sensors in digital cameras stand up to x-rays?

    [Followups set to aus.photo]

    Cheers, Phred.
     
    Phred, Aug 14, 2006
    #4
  5. kosh

    Rob Guest

    Its all that ionizing radiation that will affect them.
     
    Rob, Aug 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Photographic film integrates all the light that hits it from the time it is made
    until it is developed. So far as it is concerned x-rays are much the same thing
    as light, so exposing film to x-rays is roughly the same as opening the back of
    the camera in a dimly lit room. I've no idea what the sensitivity of a digital
    sensor to x-rays is, but would think it quite likely that a burst of x-rays
    while a photo was being taken would fog the photo. However the sensor is only
    sensitive while power is applied to it, so you are talking about permanent
    damage to the sensor. I have never heard any tales of woe, or seen any warnings
    on the subject, and I think that the sensors are quite resistant to x-ray
    damage.

    A travel article on the weekend paper mentioned that when the writer returned
    recently from an overseas trip involving many transfers, and took his films into
    a photo shop he was warned that the films could well be fogged, so he was very
    relieved to find that he had an excellent set of pictures.


    James McNangle
     
    James McNangle, Aug 14, 2006
    #6
  7. kosh

    kosh Guest

    in theory... there could be some probloems, but the chances are quite
    low. I have also made a point of asking people who's cards have
    corrupted if it had been through a scanner.... I have not heard of any
    problems there so far.

    kosh
     
    kosh, Aug 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Interesting thought. I think that Flash cards rely for their memory on parking
    relatively small numbers of electrons in "wells", so it wouldn't surprise me at
    all if they were more sensitive to x-rays than optical sensors. But again I
    would suspect that any damage would be more likely to show as loss of contents,
    rather than permanent damage.


    James McNangle
     
    James McNangle, Aug 15, 2006
    #8
  9. kosh

    boris Guest

    I have 2 cameras...one DSLR & on prosumer. Both have been through hundreds
    of airports & tight security buildings without the slightest worry.
     
    boris, Aug 15, 2006
    #9
  10. kosh

    Noons Guest

    exactly. the only thing I can think of would be a problem is the
    memory card:
    digital sensors would need a chenobyl-class radiation burst to go
    belly-up.

    as for film: no problems whatsoever if you put your film through
    hand-luggage
    check-in. Which you can still do. The xray machines for hand luggage
    have been film-safe for more than 20 years, no matter what you hear
    from
    the "mechants of fear". And yes, that goes for repeats as well.

    The same cannot be said about checked-in luggage xrays: those
    are much stronger and can definitely cause a problem.

    So, for film: carry it in the open, in a pocket or "transparent" hand
    bag,
    that sort of stuff. and/or buy it at destination if at all possible.
    For digital: extract the memory card and take it with you.

    Very simple indeed. Mind you: I won't be air-travelling until
    this madness ends...
     
    Noons, Aug 15, 2006
    #10
  11. kosh

    kosh Guest

    yep... dead accurate.... In practice, though, I have yet to see a
    damaged card I can put o downt o x-ray damage.

    kosh
     
    kosh, Aug 15, 2006
    #11
  12. kosh

    kosh Guest

    in many instances these are the CTX-5500 scanners for both checked and
    hand luggage..... it comes down to the operrator and their policy.....
    if it goes through enough of any scanner, you will see damage.....
    the point is mute though if you can only take your passport on-board.

    kosh
     
    kosh, Aug 15, 2006
    #12
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