FRONTIER 370 - OVERSCANNING?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Colin D, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. Colin D

    Colin D Guest

    I have a problem. I use the local Fuji shop for getting prints done
    from my digital images, which I have sized and adjusted pixels so the
    image is exactly what I want printed, e.g. 8 x 12 image at 300 dpi - the
    Frontier standard.

    However, the prints come back with up to a half-inch missing from each
    end of the print, and a proportional amount top and bottom.

    Now I believe that the Frontier does print at 300 dpi, and if so, the
    image should be 8 x 12 inches. Since they appear to print at about 13 x
    8-and-a-bit, are they not printing at 300 dpi, or are they resizing the
    pixel count?

    I guess you are thinking that I should ask the owner of the store. I
    did that. He doesn't know why. He also doesn't know what profile he
    uses, and when I asked about sRGB, he said "What's that?".

    What experiences have you out there had with frontier prints? Any and
    all stories, bad or good are welcome, to help me get a handle on this
    problem.

    Colin
     
    Colin D, Feb 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Colin D

    Scott W Guest

    The Frontier always scales the photo to fill the page, even if this
    means clipping some of either the ends of the top and bottom. At least
    it always does this for my prints. If I don't want to loose any of
    my photo then I will add some blank white areas to the photo, to make
    it come out to the same aspect ratio of the paper I am printing to. I
    end up with a bit of white on the photo but this can be trimmed off
    later.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Feb 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Colin D

    Colin D Guest

    Thanks, Scott, however, as I said in my post, the image was sized to 8 x
    12 inches exactly at 300 dpi in Photoshop 6, so I would have thought
    that the Frontier would just print it, as it was a perfect fit to the
    size required.

    I just pulled up the image in PS and compared it with the print. Guess
    what? the idiots printed the damned photo at A4 size (8.27 x 11.7
    inches) and not 8 x 12.

    So, you're quite right, they scaled the image from 8 to 8.27 inches,
    which takes the length to 12.4 inches, and then cropped it to 11.7
    inches, so about 3/4 inch total was lost off the ends.

    Since the print is to be framed in an 8 x 12 frame, and the subject
    matter is a large wedding group - 44 people - I left about a half-inch
    freeboard at the ends so the end persons would be inside the frame. In
    the A4 print, the end persons are partly cropped.

    Thanks for bearing with this groan session. Tomorrow, free reprints
    coming up ...

    Colin
     
    Colin D, Feb 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Colin D

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: FRONTIER 370 - OVERSCANNING?
    If i remember correctly? (haven't had it done in awhile) I have them (for film,
    not digi as the original source) scan full frame and add a 1/4 to 3/8 inch
    white border on two oppositte sides and let the other white boarders fall equal
    in dimensions. I leave the white borders _in_ (_don't cut them off_) on the
    print as I find it useful for either people handling them by the edges (to
    avoid fingerprints on anywhwere but the edges) if/when I send them out, or to
    allow for easy matting to a backboard with corners/tape (if when suitable in
    the future) or for allowing easy overmatting windows with little cahnce for
    slippage/the backboard showing.

    Sorry, don't know anything about specifics other than specifying the white
    borders/full frame. Perhaps if you ask them and have them write it down for
    each order (or tell them to do this for all your orders from now on if you
    will) you can let them do all the work :).

    Hope it works out for you :).
     
    Lewis Lang, Feb 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Colin D

    Canongirly Guest

    Fuji recently upgraded thesoftware for the frontiers, unfortunately one
    "upgrade" was that all measurements are now metric, this has caused problems
    of the type you are describing where files have been sent in in imperial.
    There are two ways round this:
    1. add 0.01in to both dimensions
    2. size your photos in metric (300mm x 205mm for a 12x8).
     
    Canongirly, Feb 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Colin D

    Sander Vesik Guest

    So which is the case:
    * somebody screwed up and assumed that 1 inch = 25 mm
    * the actual size is 300 x 205 and it was bing compensated
    for before, just like the size of "A4" in inches is regularily
    * the actual size is not and hasn't been in inches for ages,
    people in US just haven't been adjusting to reality

    notably, the size of 12x8 with no corners cut should be 304.8 x 203.2
    which really woudln't reasonably get rounded to 300mm x 205mm
     
    Sander Vesik, Feb 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Colin D

    Colin D Guest

    Next exciting chapter. I returned the A4 prints and pointed out I
    needed 8 x 12. The owner said he would put a border round the image for
    me, as he has the 'professionals' in the town do, and reprint it. (I am
    a retired pro).

    When I picked up the prints later, I asked about adding a border as he
    suggested, and how did he go about doing it, canvas size, whatever. He
    then sheepishly admitted that he just dumped the image to the printer
    without any modification at all, and guess what! it came out at 8 x 12!

    This whole idea of a border to allow printing at a specified size has to
    be the result of uninformed fiddling, and IMO displays a
    non-understanding of the Frontier system. Perhaps he got the wrong idea
    from the capability of the machine to print with or without white
    borders.

    Whatever the reason, he now knows that when I submit a color-balanced
    and pre-sized image, I want it printed as is, with no subsequent
    adjustment.

    Anybody out there with similar stories?

    Colin.
     
    Colin D, Feb 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Colin D

    Gordon Moat Guest

    The main lab I use just informed me of that option last summer. It makes it much
    easier for matting and framing images. However, it might be a case of just asking,
    though I never would have thought of that. I found out after mentioning my matting
    troubles.
    This is something that should be possible on almost any printing system, not just
    Fuji. Normal full frame 35 mm goes well to 10" by 15" or 8" by 12", sizes that are
    large enough that a small white border will not intrude on the overall image.
    Lewis has printed much more than I, and I just wanted to reinforce his statements.
    Also, another consideration can now be matte or glossy finish, something else you
    might want to ask you lab about.
     
    Gordon Moat, Feb 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Colin D

    Chip Gallo Guest

    You betcha. I took some synchronized ice skating pictures to Wal-Mart
    and they ran them on the Frontier. Pictures that had 20 skaters in a
    line came back with 18 skaters. I asked about a profile for the printer
    (I know, good luck with that) to try color management; I'll have to ask
    Fuji for it because WallyMart ain't got it.

    My solution would be as the other poster said, to frame the picture with
    a border. Another question is if I sent a 1800x1200 rez pic, does their
    software make huge changes in resizing? What is the optimum file
    resolution for a 4x6 print on the Frontier?

    Pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/chipgallo/sets/102648/

    Thanks,

    Chip Gallo
     
    Chip Gallo, Feb 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Colin D

    Colin D Guest

    Hi Chip. Try asking the Frontier guy to just drop the pre-sized image
    straight onto the paper, no adjustments. Worked for me. You will have
    to be very specific about this, as their usual MO is to 'adjust' images
    before printing.

    I size my images in PS, to the required dimensions, using the crop tool
    (not image/crop, but the tool with the crossed set-squares). I set the
    tool to size, say 6x4 or 8x12, and 300 dpi, and then use the tool to
    crop the image as I require. The resultant image is then the exact
    size, at the dpi you specify. The Frontier standard is 300 dpi, so I
    use that. Of course, the image is resampled up or down as required in
    this operation, but that is inevitable if you want a given size at a
    given dpi. I then save the image as a jpeg at maximum quality.

    Then, if they don't fiddle, the print will be the size you want, with no
    cropping of your image.

    A border for matting is a different problem. I dry-mount my prints and
    cut the matte a fraction smaller than the print. But mostly these days,
    I size the print to the frame rebate, and crop the image to allow for
    the rebate depth.


    Colin.
     
    Colin D, Feb 11, 2005
    #10
  11. Colin D

    Chip Gallo Guest

    Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully it works similarly in Photoshop
    Elements 3.

    Where did you get the DPI for the Frontier?

    Chip
     
    Chip Gallo, Feb 11, 2005
    #11
  12. Colin D

    Colin D Guest

    OPk, Chip. have a look at this url:

    http://www.drycreekphoto.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?zoom_query=frontier+dpi

    Note on page 4 it says that the Frontier prints at 300 dpi. But read the
    whole article. It has very valuable info on how to make sure the
    Frontier operators will do what you want. Good luck with that ...

    Colin
     
    Colin D, Feb 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Colin D

    Chip Gallo Guest

    Thanks, Colin! Your information makes it worthwhile to wade through the
    digital excrement that has been showing up in this ng. And of course Dry
    Creek has done a great job of collecting and publishing the information.

    I need a monitor upgrade (and maybe an upgrade from Elements 3 to CS),
    but I'm in this for the long haul and my hobby photography budget is
    unlimited :)

    Chip
     
    Chip Gallo, Feb 12, 2005
    #13
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