Fuji F5 has a 14 bit A to D

Discussion in 'Fuji' started by RichA, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. I didn't calculate it - I read it right off the data sheet. ;-)

    However, following your query I looked at the data sheet on their web
    site (Issue July 2006) and note it doesn't have the raw information that
    was included in the previous issues. The earlier versions I have here
    state exactly the same data as the recent version, but in addition have
    the storage capacity and readout noise directly in ke.
    eg. Full well capacity 250ke (min), 500 ke (typ), 600ke (max).

    I guess these numbers are less useful to potential users than the output
    referenced figures which contain essentially the same information so
    they removed the versions in ke to avoid data sheet conflicts in the
    event of updates.
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Dec 8, 2006
    #21
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  2. It says in the data sheet that it is "a full frame CCD colour image
    sensor designed for professional digital photography applications".

    Sounds pretty standard to me. ;-)

    I considered using this sensor to build a digital back for my old film
    cameras some time ago, so I am quite familiar with it.
    It is available in colour (FTF-3020C) and mono (FTF-3020M) versions.
    *Up* to 18fps - if all four outputs are used at full speed. If one
    output is used then the maximum rate is 5fps. If operated slower then
    the read noise reduces significantly. 4 outputs and 1Hz operation you
    can get below 5e read noise after CDS (measured), which is exactly where
    my numbers came from.
    The OP suggested that we should add "a couple of bits" to get the "full
    range the sensor is capable of". He didn't say "the full range that
    today's lower dynamic range sensors are capable of". ;-)
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Dec 8, 2006
    #22
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  3. Pentax has gone well beyond 12 bit, their K10D has a 22 bit A/D converter.
     
    Not Disclosed, Dec 9, 2006
    #23
  4. RichA

    Scott W Guest

    Yes it does, and if we assue a full well of say 80,000 electrons it
    would be able to resolve down to 0.02 electrons, I just can't see the
    need for that.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Dec 9, 2006
    #24
  5. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    Um, roughly what's the price on this sensor? I saw it in big wall socket
    black box cameras for industrial uses presumably with an f-mount, also
    without price.
     
    Paul Furman, Dec 9, 2006
    #25
  6. Like most semiconductors, it depends heavily on quantity and spec. I
    had a price around $500 for one-off when I was evaluating it, but I
    expect they are a lot less than that in volume.
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Dec 9, 2006
    #26
  7. I take it you didn't do it? If you did, please let me know your
    address, I have a Minolta XD7 I'd like to show you!
    But if you take their (Dalsa's) values for the well capacity for linear
    operation (which I suppose is what we are actually interested in), it's
    almost half the value that you quote. Again, though, 14 bits aren't
    enough.
     
    achilleaslazarides, Dec 9, 2006
    #27
  8. No, I didn't. The insurmountable problem turned out to be positioning
    the sensor exactly at the focal plane of the camera. The sensor sits
    2.4mm behind the surface of the 1mm coverglass. So with that mounted
    flush to the film guides the maximum focus distance of a 50mm lens would
    be around 1.3m. Even machining out the film gate in the camera wouldn't
    have provided enough space to permit the shutter to clear the cover
    glass when fired as well as making the back less interchangeable. There
    was no practical solution.

    I was looking specifically at the Olympus OM range of bodies, since
    Olympus had abandoned their high performance users and headed down dead
    end 4/3 alley. I gather some other bodies have a bit more space between
    shutter and film plane, but if I was going to have to change bodies to
    make something then I might as well get a new dSLR, which I did - Canon.
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Dec 9, 2006
    #28


  9. I have a solution for you - the Exa 1, 1a or Exa 500 - baby sister of
    the Exakta, this camera used a drum shutter mounted on a rotating
    mechanism which also carried the mirror. The mirror flips up, bringing
    the drum behind it, and a slit in the drum (variable width) then
    provides the shutter opening, midway between the lens and the film
    plane. The Exa models have no focal plane in front of their film gate,
    and could be fitted with your Dalsa DIY CCD. The groundglass screen is a
    little dim but they accept a nice range of old Zeiss, Meyer, Schacht,
    Steinheil, Isco and similar German lenses from 20mm to 500mm.

    The big thing for me would how on earth you would make your own A to D
    converter, CF card memory and LCD review screen :)

    David
     
    David Kilpatrick, Dec 9, 2006
    #29
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    No doubt their development board was about $4000 though.
     
    RichA, Dec 9, 2006
    #30
  11. It accepts all of my OM optics and has the same control layout of the OM
    cameras? As I said, when it came to changing body to get it to work
    then the objective was lost.
    You don't make those yourself, you use standard components. My initial
    selection of ADC, and what I used in the CCD evaluation, was a 16-bit
    chip from Analog Devices. I didn't intend to put an LCD screen on the
    device in the first instance, merely dump the data to the CF card for
    subsequent reading. No doubt, had the development proceeded then I
    would have wanted to add such bells and whistles in due course, but
    maybe not - I survived for 30 years without a review display on an SLR,
    and what you don't miss what you never had.
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Dec 10, 2006
    #31
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