Fuji S2 really 12 MP?

Discussion in 'Fuji' started by Michael, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. Michael

    Michael Guest

    I was at a local portrait studio (chain store) where they were using the
    Fuji S2 as their only cameras. When I got home I checked on these cameras
    and they appear to be 6 MP, but the image is converted to 12 MP. I can't
    tell if the camera really is 6 MP or 12 MP. If it is really 12 MP then it
    might be a good camera for pro work. Can anyone shed any light on if this
    is a good pro camera for portrait work? Thanks!
     
    Michael, Jul 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. Michael

    Zebedee Guest

    Umm. Fuji has a unique sensor that can be considered to be almost 12mp or
    6mp.
    It's not a 2-dimensional honeycomb like most sensors. It's 3-dimensional.

    In 2-dimensions, it is 6mp but in 3 dimensions, it is 12.


    --
    Yours

    Zebedee

    (Claiming asylum in an attempt
    to escape paying his debts to
    Dougal and Florence)
     
    Zebedee, Jul 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. Its kind of complicated. The easiest sort of sensor to understand is the
    foveon...A grid on the sensor has a 1:1 relationship with picture elements
    (pixels). The vast majority of sensors have what is called a Bayern pattern
    where each sensor looks around at its neighbors and tries to fit in (that is
    why they need sharpening)...Fuji has been putting their sensors in something
    other than a grid. For the S2 it was a honeycomb pattern. Because each pixel
    looked around for hints as to how it should appear....and then had to be
    twisted to fit a proper grid the photos tended to need more sharpening...but
    when done were far superior to a 6mp....but not quite as good as a proper
    12mp photo.

    Due out next quarter is the S3, a camera I think might be my next one, and
    it uses a grid (not sure if its honeycomb or not) with large elements for
    average lighting....interspersed with small sensors that watch the light
    areas....thereby giving a wider dynamic range that digitals just don't have
    right now.

    The Kodak 14n and its cousins is said to have some problems, the Canon 11mp
    is way expensive, the Hasselblad with 22mp back is $35k or so....next down
    the line is the S2 or S3. So these are your best choices for Portrait use.
    Whether or not its right for it...the Fujis might be the best choice right
    now.

    (for the anal out there....this is off the top of my head....correct facts
    if you feel you must)
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jul 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Michael

    Douglas Guest

    Fuji has used in camera interpolation for several years! The camera is a 6
    mp camera! You can do the same thing with software and ,say a Canon Rebel
    300.The S2 is a nice camera,but not as good as a true 12mp camera.The Canon
    1DS is in that ballpark!
     
    Douglas, Jul 22, 2004
    #4
  5. This is a political football and a religious issue.

    Mostly the camera is 6 megapixel. It has 6 million photo-detector
    spots on the CCD. But they're not arranged in a conventional
    rectangular array. Everybody will tell you, of course, that obviously
    therefore it can't possibly have anything more than 6 megapixels
    really.

    Except it does slightly better in resolution tests. Only slightly.
    And that may be because the standard test charts use vertical and
    horizontal lines, and rotating the sensor may simply have improved
    resolution in vertical and horizontal lines at the expense of
    resolution in diagonal lines.

    Anyway, *nobody* thinks it's a full-blooded 12-megapixel camera. The
    most any optimistic partisan has ever claimed in my hearing is that it
    might actually have marginally more resolution than other 6-megapixel
    cameras.

    It's a pretty good camera for professional portrait work, actually.
    I've done a number.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jul 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Good luck with your DSLR choice, if not the S2 I'd lean towards the Canon
    Yep....I have heard that Sigma is the industry standard DSLR too....BUT I
    REMEMBER WHERE I HEARD IT!!!!!

    P R E D I O T!!!!
    For those who don't think he is doing any harm....see what happens. Its how
    the big lie works. Say it often enough and people will start to believe it.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jul 22, 2004
    #6
  7. SNIP

    The camera has 6M sensors in a diagonal sensor array. To store all the
    information in a horizontal/vertical array orientation, it has to be
    saved as 12MP.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Jul 22, 2004
    #7
  8. SNIP
    interpolation.

    Nonsense.

    Steve, don't you think that at the age of 38, you ought to be able and
    display a slightly more adult behavior?

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Jul 22, 2004
    #8
  9. (George Preddy) writes:

    [snip most of the message, where we're actually in agreement for once]
    I'm not privy to the thoughts of all the people at Fuji who
    collectively made the decision, but I give some credence to the claims
    that the pattern gives them a layout advantage in the actual CCD,
    allowing them to have larger wells for the sensor pitch. I'm also not
    a chip design person, not in a good position to evaluate the claim
    myself; but I haven't noticed anybody else with chip design
    credentials explaining why it's nonsense, either.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jul 22, 2004
    #9
  10. Michael

    Tom Scales Guest

    In other words, 6 megapixels, not 12. Just as the Sigma is 3.4mp, not some
    inflated number.

    12 megasensors does not equal 6 megapixels.
     
    Tom Scales, Jul 23, 2004
    #10
  11. Sabineellen wrote:
    []
    Oh, not more marketing lies, please!!!

    If, and I am not sure, but if these diodes are co-located and of different
    sensitivity, then it's a 6MP camera with a wider dynamic range than usual
    at each pixel. It does not record information at 12MP.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 23, 2004
    #11
  12. Mike Henley wrote:
    []
    From:
    <http://www.ephotozine.com/articles/viewarticle.cfm?id=14>

    "Q. How is Super CCD SR different from a normal CCD?
    A. Super CCD SR uses a new CCD arrangement, based on the diagonally
    mapped, octagonal sensor arrangement that Fujifilm pioneered with Third
    Generation (3G) Super CCD. However, with Super CCD SR, not one, but two
    photodiodes capture information on the same area of the image (these are
    arranged in a 'double honeycomb' structure)."

    which says the pixels are co-located. So it's 6MP, not 12MP.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 23, 2004
    #12
  13. SNIP
    image.

    Wrong again, as usual.

    There are 12M sensors, 2 sensors per photosite, so resolution is
    identical to other 6M sensor arrays with the same orientation.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Jul 24, 2004
    #13
  14. The SR (not SD!) has, depending on the size, 6 or12M sensors. The HR
    is a denser packed version of a more regular CCD.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Fujifilm/fuji_s2.asp
    Fujifilm SuperCCD III:
    Effective pixels: 6.1 million
    Sensor Photo detectors: 6.5 million (1 photodiode per photosite)

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Fujifilm/fuji_s3.asp
    Fujifilm SuperCCD IV SR:
    Effective pixels: 6.1 million S-photodiodes + 6.1 million
    R-photodiodes
    Sensor Photo detectors: 12.3 million (2 photodiodes per photosite)

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020502fujifilms20pro.asp
    1/1.7" Fujifilm SuperCCD IV SR
    Effective pixels: 3.1 million S-photodiodes + 3.1 million
    R-photodiodes
    Sensor Photo detectors: 6.1 million (2 photodiodes per photosite)

    Or to quote from that last link:
    "The technology behind Super CCD SR

    On a standard CCD, a single photodiode** is responsible for capturing
    the full range of light strengths at a single location on the sensor,
    whereas with Super CCD SR, two photodiodes capture information on the
    same area of the image."

    And from http://www.dpreview.com/news/0301/03012201fujisuperccdhr.asp

    "22 January 2003: Fuji Photo Film (UK) Ltd today announced the
    introduction of two new Fourth Generation Super CCDs that will deliver
    Super CCD image quality in an even smaller package. Named 'Super CCD
    Type HR' (HR stands for High Resolution),... "

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Jul 25, 2004
    #14
  15. The SR (not SD!) has, depending on the size, 6 or12M sensors. The HR
    is a denser packed version of a more regular CCD.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Fujifilm/fuji_s2.asp
    Fujifilm SuperCCD III:
    Effective pixels: 6.1 million
    Sensor Photo detectors: 6.5 million (1 photodiode per photosite)

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Fujifilm/fuji_s3.asp
    Fujifilm SuperCCD IV SR:
    Effective pixels: 6.1 million S-photodiodes + 6.1 million
    R-photodiodes
    Sensor Photo detectors: 12.3 million (2 photodiodes per photosite)

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0402/04020502fujifilms20pro.asp
    1/1.7" Fujifilm SuperCCD IV SR
    Effective pixels: 3.1 million S-photodiodes + 3.1 million
    R-photodiodes
    Sensor Photo detectors: 6.1 million (2 photodiodes per photosite)

    Or to quote from that last link:
    "The technology behind Super CCD SR

    On a standard CCD, a single photodiode** is responsible for capturing
    the full range of light strengths at a single location on the sensor,
    whereas with Super CCD SR, two photodiodes capture information on the
    same area of the image."

    And from http://www.dpreview.com/news/0301/03012201fujisuperccdhr.asp

    "22 January 2003: Fuji Photo Film (UK) Ltd today announced the
    introduction of two new Fourth Generation Super CCDs that will deliver
    Super CCD image quality in an even smaller package. Named 'Super CCD
    Type HR' (HR stands for High Resolution),... "

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Jul 25, 2004
    #15
  16. Michael

    tekfull Guest


    Georgeits

    HR=high resolution
    SD=Junk
     
    tekfull, Jul 25, 2004
    #16
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