Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by RichA, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Yes, there will be the people with DSLR's who, having bought most of
    the accessories and lenses they will never use, that will buy this
    camera, but likely they will be the only ones.
    I know one 120 camera-owning nutcase on Dpreview who will snap one up
    the first chance they get them trumpet its greatness to the Moon for
    all of a week or two, only to relegate it to the closet, or mantle-
    piece as an ornament. There will be those with the hobbyist's
    discipline (a contradiction?) who will actually try to use the camera,
    despite its crippling deficiency, but they are few. Guranteed some
    will crow it is the finest implementation of the idea "street camera"
    extant. This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    $100.00 strikes me as odd. It's true that true rangefinders (which
    this one is made to look like) are generally limited to a short range
    lens focal length selection compared to DSLR's but at least you can
    change their lenses.
    Isn't it time they trotted out the add-on lenses that they inevitably
    will, when that camera fails to sell in any numbers because of its
    single focal-length straight-jacket? A brave, fool-hardy initiative
    by Fuji and a sad, sad state of affairs for those wishing for a new
    DSLR from them, with their favourite sensor technology, and not just
    another Sony-sensored camera of many. Is this a criticism of the Sony
    sensor? No, just some hard reality. To paraphrase Patton, "Fixed-
    lens cameras are monuments to the stupidity of man."
     
    RichA, Feb 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Savageduck Guest

    Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with you.
    I was initially enthusiastic with the announcement of the X100 and saw
    it as a digital replacement for my old Electro 35. It doesn't come
    close. For now I will stick to my G11 as my option camera.
    I feel they would have been able to make sales beyond the groups you
    have described above, if they had gone head-to-head with the M9.
    FF would be nice, but APS-C is acceptable. Then provide a two, or three
    interchangeable lens option. That I would buy.
    A Leica M converter would follow and it becomes a worthy contender.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 19, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    $2000
    http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/fujifilm-x100-and-its-hybrid-viewfinder-are-here/

    I love the idea but not at that price!
    http://www.onecall.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-X100/Digital-Camera/_/R-109596
     
    Paul Furman, Feb 20, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Jeff R. Guest

    That doesn't mean that it *is* odd.

    Since you seem to disapprove of the X100 so much, could you help me out
    here?
    Can you point me towards another compact camera which has:

    * a shutter speed dial on the top;
    (not a frustratingly inaccessible menu-selected rear-mounted thumbwheel; one
    which isn't immediately visible at a glance; one which doesn't insult my
    intelligence with baby-styled modes of operation like "fireworks" or
    "self-portrait") (etc. etc.)

    * an exposure comp. dial readily accessible;
    (same arguments as above)

    * a focus ring that turns manually around the lens;
    (not some crappy servo-driven too-fast or too-slow push-button control)

    * an aperture dial on the top;
    (not some crappy menu-driven selection which resets when you turn the camera
    off.)

    AND NOTHING ELSE to clutter up the vital controls on the top plate?

    Well?
    The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.

    If you don't really understand the attraction of the X100 design. do you
    think it's wise to bag it so comprehensively?

    As to the fixed lens: My favourite camera of all time, by an order of
    magnitude, was my Olympus 35RC. FFL, 42mm, and otherwise practically
    identical to the X100. Brilliant camera. Magnificent results.

    If the Fuji can replicate that experience, then it's worth the beefy price
    tag.

    (The M9, BTW, is not worth the entry price, but it sure looks like it works
    nicely.)

    Hmmm...
    Here's an idea.
    If the X100 turns out to be anything other than a brilliant marketing
    initiative (based on sales) will you come back here in, say, a year's time,
    and eat your words? Publicly?
     
    Jeff R., Feb 20, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    Alan Browne Guest

    In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.

    And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    good control layout.

    As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.

    It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 20, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Do you really expect a rational answer?
     
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    I don't know where you get $2000 from, Paul. The article and the
    advert both quote a price of $1199.95.

    Cameras and lenses usually cost more in the UK than in the USA, but
    after allowing for the UK's new VAT rate of 20% (up from 17.5% last
    month) the camera is only about 6% more expensive here (GBP 899.00
    including 20% VAT). By the time you pay a typical rate of sales tax
    on the US price, that makes the US and UK prices almost equal.

    I haven't tried one yet but apparently we sold three yesterday to
    customers who had pre-ordered them. We won't be trying one ourselves
    until all the pre-orders have been satisfied. At the predicted rate
    of delivery, that will be about 5-6 weeks from now.
     
    Bruce, Feb 20, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Another reason Fuji might have shot themselves in the foot; limited
    accessory sale potentail.
     
    Rich, Feb 20, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Since it's the default for most cameras to have that function assigned
    to the thumbwheel, it doesn't present much of a problem, unless
    looking at the LCD or through the viewfinder (where the s/s, apeture
    are displayed) is a hassle.
    That fuction is readily available or can be assigned to a button for
    most cameras.
    I'd agree with that.
    Again, it's no hassle in any modern camera.

    You mean other functions don't rate any use?


    You mean the X1? It's $2000, or about $800 more.
    The attraction is limited, as is the camera. My issue was with Fuji
    hugely limiting themselves with it.
    I had one. Reasonable and limited results are more like it.
    Nostalgia is fine, as long as you aren't remembering through a haze.
    If you ditch all your other grear and then really use the Fuji, a lot,
    then you have something. If it hasn't be consigned to the ornament
    pile, no...

    Sure it is. It's build-quality alone separates it from all the other
    cameras out there.
    Sure, because I'm not system tied, I hope they succeed with it and it
    allows them to do other, more practical things. But I don't think it
    will amount to much more than a limited back-up to versatile gear.
    BTW, we don't need a year. A couple months will determine if it has
    what it takes to be successful.
     
    Rich, Feb 20, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    :
    : > The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    :
    : In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    : have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.
    :
    : And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    : good control layout.
    :
    : As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    :
    : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.

    I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    tool.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Feb 20, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    BmEcksNZ Guest

    Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.

    However did you cope before photoshop??

    Cheers
    Steve
     
    BmEcksNZ, Feb 20, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Alan Browne Guest

    The old advice was good in the film days when there was no immediate
    feedback to the learning photographer, so he had to focus on artistic as
    well as technical issues for every shot. Limiting to a general focal
    length was a good way to reduce the variables.

    Since digital cameras have come along, people learn from their
    compositions within seconds of taking the shot - not to mention exposure
    issues and so on. So adding variables (zoom) does not matter as much.

    As to zoom, one should avoid zooms with more than 3:1 zoom ratio. At
    that point the compromises begin to show in the image quality somewhere
    in the zoom range, not to mention being constrained to smaller apertures
    and variable max aperture lenses.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 20, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    I had an amazing device called an "enlarger." I inserted another thing
    called "film" on a stage with a cropping mask into the enlarger. I then
    turned it on and presto!
     
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Err! Some people never learn.
     
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    dj_nme Guest

    On 21/02/2011 10:46 AM, PeterN wrote:
    That you snip and then leave a non-sequitor reply?
    Or, some other pearl of wisdom which you're hiding?

    please explain.
     
    dj_nme, Feb 21, 2011
    #16
  17. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    :
    : > :
    : > : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : > : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    : >
    : > I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to
    : > advocate an absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two
    : > best aids to learning composition are a wide-range zoom lens and
    : > a photo editor with a good cropping tool.
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    : pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    : and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.
    :
    : However did you cope before photoshop??

    Funny you should ask. I have never used Photoshop.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Feb 21, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2011.02.20 18:11 , Robert Coe wrote:
    : > On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:44:05 -0500, Alan Browne
    : > : On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    : > :
    : > :> The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    : > :
    : > : In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    : > : have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.
    : > :
    : > : And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    : > : good control layout.
    : > :
    : > : As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    : > :
    : > : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : > : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    : >
    : > I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    : > absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    : > composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    : > tool.
    :
    : The old advice was good in the film days when there was no immediate
    : feedback to the learning photographer, so he had to focus on artistic as
    : well as technical issues for every shot. Limiting to a general focal
    : length was a good way to reduce the variables.

    To me, it's like learning to play the recorder if your objective is to learn
    the flute. It can't do any harm, but it doesn't advance the ball very much.

    : Since digital cameras have come along, people learn from their
    : compositions within seconds of taking the shot - not to mention exposure
    : issues and so on. So adding variables (zoom) does not matter as much.
    :
    : As to zoom, one should avoid zooms with more than 3:1 zoom ratio. At
    : that point the compromises begin to show in the image quality somewhere
    : in the zoom range, not to mention being constrained to smaller apertures
    : and variable max aperture lenses.

    I wasn't shilling for high-ratio zooms. My point was simply that it's a fine
    device to have available if you want to learn composition in a hurry. It's a
    dynamic, on-the-spot cropping tool, and a lot of composition is knowing how to
    crop effectively.

    Actually, the highest-ratio zoom I ever owned was a 28-135 that came with my
    50D. I didn't need it, so I gave it to my wife.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Feb 21, 2011
    #18
  19. I guess that's why this 20X Superzoom's lens provides far better image
    quality than a 3X DSLR lens.

    <http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_PowerShot_SX10_IS/outdoor_results.shtml>

    The x-spurt, armchair-photographer, resident-trolls have posted far too
    much other inane bullshit and nonsense in these groups this weekend for
    anyone to correct, so I'll leave it at just this one. Sometimes you have to
    just let the shit-mountain avalanche slide ....
     
    Educate Yourselves, Feb 21, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    Better Info Guest

    Yes, we've already learned that about you, from your incessant crapshots.
    Post some more, to prove it yet again.
     
    Better Info, Feb 21, 2011
    #20
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