Fungus on Kodachrome 35mm Slides

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Tom, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. Tom

    Tom Guest

    What dan you do about subject problem?

    Thanks,

    Tom D.
     
    Tom, Feb 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Tom

    chrlz Guest

    1. move them to a cool dry enviroment
    2. go to museum or historical library and speak to an expert

    Very likely, there is little you can do as the fungus has probably
    eaten into the emulsion. You *may* be able to clean them carefully
    with PEC-12 or similar to reduce the problem, but I think it is game
    over. All you can do is stop it getting worse - but like I said, go
    talk to an expert. Note that scanning them in an ICE capable scanner
    may be able to get rid of some of the damage, and then you could touch
    them up digitally if it's not too bad.
     
    chrlz, Feb 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Tom

    RSD99 Guest

    See:
    http://faqs.kodak.com/35mm_english/dml_fetch.pl?CompanyID=104&ContentID=456
    &FaqID=401&word=fungus&faq_template=http://faqs.kodak.com/35mm_english/sear
    chfaq.shtm&topic=00&back_refr=http://faqs.kodak.com/35mm_english/&topicname
    =&Id=&Instance=&Shared=

    <Rant Mode>

    Kodak has (had?) several other publications on this (and similar) subjects,
    but it is almost impossible to find **anything** on their humongus,
    unorganized web site. I know the title(s), and even the publication
    numbers, and also know "for a fact" that these publications are on-line as
    PDFs, but cannot find them to save my proverbial "arse." Even using their
    so-called "search" box on either the Consumer or the Professional sections
    of the web site ... NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING the documents
    referenced below shows up. Kodak's web design team really needs to be
    replaced by someone that knows how to design a USEABLE site. [Ron Baird ...
    are you listening?]

    </Rant Mode>

    These publications are

    (1) "Recommendations for Cleaning Photographic Materials," Publication
    Number CIS-145, dated September 1999, Customer Imaging Division. I
    **think** a proper download URL for a PDF version is
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/cis145/cis145.pdf

    (2) "Prevention and Removal of Fungus on Film and Prints," Publication
    Number AE-22, dated July 2002, Consumer Imaging Division. I **think** a
    proper download URL for a PDF version is
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/ae22/ae22.pdf

    FWIW:
    Kodak references "isopropyl alcohol in a concentration of 98% or greater*."
    I do not know of any sources of "chemical" (or Reagent) grade Isopropyl,
    but my local Long's Drugs has very inexpensive "99% Isopropyl Rubbing
    Alcohol" ... under stock number (bar code) NCD 12333-98041-1.

    FWIW 2:
    My experience is that once "Fungus" or "Mould" begins growing on the film,
    it is essentially there permanently. Someone once explained that the Fungus
    is actually growing *inside* the lacquer layer that protects the emulsion,
    and it cannot really be removed without also stripping off the emulsion! I
    do not know if that is true or not ... but it is pretty much consistent
    with my experiences. About all you can do is clean the slides (as
    referenced in the above (first) web page, and minimize the damage.

    FWIW3:
    The URLs I listed above worked at one time ... but now seem to return a
    "Page Not Found" error.

    Bad Kodak ...
    Shame on you, Kodak ...

    Good luck.
     
    RSD99, Feb 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Tom

    grol Guest

    Depending on the year of the slides, I was told that a small amount ethyl
    alcohol is fine. Earlier slides would disolve though.

    I tried this a few months ago on some slides taken in the late 60's, and found
    that the cardboard mounts didn't appreciate it and that the slides really needed
    to be washed afterwards because of the smeering of the disolved fungus and
    "watermarks" left behind. Some spots where the fungus was removed from, were
    left damaged - the fungus had eaten into the emulsion in a few places and the
    alcohol removed the fungus leaving a see-thru hole in the emulsion. The alcohol
    seemed to do nothing to the rest of the slide.

    Risky doing this, so practise on a few slides that you don't mind throwing away.
    Unmount them first, and remount them.

    grol
     
    grol, Feb 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Tom

    chrlz Guest

    I would just like to echo that sentiment about Kodaks ridiculous site
    search method that simply *doesn't work*, and the layout where much of
    the site is simply hidden, if you try to get there from the front page
    menus. There is much good stuff there, but trying to find it is a
    waste of time.
     
    chrlz, Feb 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Tom

    BillB Guest

    Several years ago I wanted to get a SCSI card reader but didn't
    care to pay the $200 to $400 that seemed to be the going rate. I
    heard somewhere that Kodak had one for much less so I tried to find
    it. After wasting a couple of hours searching their website and
    almost giving up, I finally located it. I don't recall now if I
    found it via their web site or if google provided the URL. The one
    they had was delivered quickly, worked perfectly, needed no drivers,
    worked with both PCs and MACs, came with more adapters than I could
    possibly need and cost only about $50.
     
    BillB, Feb 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Tom

    chrlz Guest

    chrlz, Feb 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Tom

    RSD99 Guest

    Good find ... I've been there before. Another couple of URLs are

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDatabankI
    ndex.jhtml?id=0.1.14.34.9&lc=en

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/professional/nav/navigation.jhtml

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/professional/nav/tibNavigation.jhtml
    ?id=0.1.14.34.5&lc=en

    Kodak's line of filters (once the Industry's Gold Standard), now marketed
    by Tiffen
    http://www.tiffen.com/Header_page_KPA.htm

    More on Wratten Filters
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/b3akic/b3akic.
    jhtml?id=0.1.14.34.9.16.40&lc=en

    Kodak's Professional Reference Publications (this one has links for a *lot*
    of the film publications)
    http://wwwes.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDataban
    kReference.jhtml?id=0.1.14.32.9.16&lc=en

    I found this one today ...
    Kodak Professional publications, Listed by Pub Number
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDatabankL
    ist.jhtml?id=0.1.14.34.9.18&lc=en

    Kodak Professional Photographic Products Data Bank (Films Papers and
    Chancels)
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDatabankI
    ndex.jhtml?id=0.1.14.34.9&lc=en

    Also
    http://wwwes.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDataban
    kReference.jhtml?id=0.1.14.32.9.16&lc=en

    Kodak's Student Filmmaker Program ... primarily for movie film students,
    but has a **LOT** of photographic general technical "stuff"
    http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/students/handbook/index.jhtml?id=0.1.4.9.
    6&lc=en

    The list goes on ... but if you find an interesting page on one of Kodak's
    web site(s), be SURE to save a 'Favorites' or 'Bookmark in a safe place.
    Otherwise, you will probably NEVER be able to get back!

    PS - I don't think that Ron Baird should "defend his company," just
    hopefully act as an agent for change to help improve the "system." After
    all, Kodak probably has a couple of hundred million pages of "Information"
    that could be liberated for the world's photographers!
     
    RSD99, Feb 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Tom

    Newron Guest

    Greetings RSD,

    Sorry you are having a hard time finding the content you have mentioned.
    Actually, the documents to which you refer are being transferred to a
    database of FAQs. IF I recall correctly, the book was called Prevention and
    Removal of Fungus on Kodak Films.

    There are several areas of interest with this publication and our support
    teams have extracted the most used data and put into a database for you to
    review. In this case, the following article can be found on the support tab
    of films and processing off the main page of the Kodak Home page.

    Actually, mold and fungus can form on slides and other photographic
    materials. Fungus spores and bacteria are in the air regardless of air
    temperature and humidity. Moisture, darkness, and stagnant air foster fungus
    growth on the gelatin emulsions of film. If photographic films are stored
    for any length of time in an area having a relative humidity of 60% or
    above, there is a tendency for fungus to grow either on the emulsion surface
    or base side of the film.

    The following should remove mold and fungus from slide film if the fungus
    growth has not etched or distorted the film emulsion.
    Note:

    a.. Wear cotton gloves to avoid getting fingerprints on the film.
    a.. Remove the slides from their cardboard/glass mounts before cleaning.
    What you need:

    a.. a Kodak Photo Chamois, or a soft, plush pad, or some absorbent cotton.
    a.. isopropyl alcohol in a concentration of 98% or greater*.

    Moisten the photo chamois/pad/cotton with the isopropyl alcohol, and gently
    wipe the slide until it is clean. Remount the slides in clean glass mounts
    or new cardboard mounts.
    DO NOT use the following:


    a.. water, or solutions that contain water. Fungus usually makes the
    emulsion water soluble.
    a.. ordinary rubbing alcohol (it contains too much water).

    *If you have difficulty locating this, check with gas stations and auto
    parts stores. It is sold as "dry gas" for your car, but be sure to check the
    label to be sure you have a 98% solution with no other additives."

    There are several other conditions you might find, RDS, on old slides. If
    you find lines that move randomly over the image area and cannot be cleaned
    or removed, it is most likely due to insects. Very small mites can get on
    the film and will eat the gelatin. Since there is no set pattern to their
    movement, the lines will wander but usually concentrate in one section of
    the slide. It is important that you store the slides in an environment
    conduscive with good living conditions. And, that you protect them as best
    you can.

    You can find the list you are looking for - at least for the professional
    films which might apply broadly, by going to the following URL

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...ilmDatabankList.jhtml?id=0.1.14.34.9.18&lc=en

    Let me know if you have questions,

    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company


     
    Newron, Feb 11, 2005
    #9
  10. Tom

    Newron Guest

    Greetings,

    If you go to the Kodak site and choose the support tab, look to the left to
    see a list of options. Click on 35mm camera FAQs. On the resulting search
    page, type in Storage and Care of Film and in the secondary field below it
    ("Please Choose A Topic"), choose 35mm Film > Features and Use. You will
    find a number of answers with links to the document you see, i.e. E-30 or
    Storage and Care of Kodak Film

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/knowledgebase/35mm-cameras.jhtml?pq-path=2/3/10/1396/5773

    Use this process for other similar things you have hard time finding. In
    the meantime, I will share your experiences with the right web team.

    Thanks for the feedback, Chrlz,

    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company
     
    Newron, Feb 11, 2005
    #10
  11. Tom

    RSD99 Guest

    Thanks for the reply, Ron. And thanks for quoting the contents of the
    document. I downloaded a PDF of that document about six months ago, and
    could not figure out why the URL ... actually included in the document ...
    didn't work.

    While you are "talking" to the appropriate web team, you might ask them why
    this document does **NOT** show up **anywhere** in the search results when
    you search on the single word fungus.

    Also ... thanks for the URL of the index page. I found this page many moons
    ago, and referenced it (along with several other similar pages at Kodak's
    web site) in my posting made Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:49:56 EST.







     
    RSD99, Feb 11, 2005
    #11
  12. Tom

    chrlz Guest

    Appreciate your response, Ron.

    Seriously, the site layout is just plain silly and frustrating if you
    are trying to find stuff, and it reflects badly on Kodak.. Why on
    earth wouldn't/shouldn't we be able to find that stuff? Either it
    should be cross-referenced (and I think where *we* were looking, was a
    lot more logical than the way you went in!), OR, the search function
    should work. Neither 'cleaning film', 'film care', 'film storage', or
    even just 'fungus' found these documents. Now that tells me that
    something is horribly wrong!

    This isn't rocket science, and it doesn't mean every single document
    has to be searchable, it simply means that these documents need to be
    referenced by a few, pretty dang obvious, keywords. Fell free to tell
    your webmasters - but they really should know this...


    Thanks for the links and info, anyways - very helpful.

    (By the way, using your example, instead of typing in `Storage and Care
    of Film`, try typing in `cleaning film`, or `fungus`, or.... My point
    being, how on earth were we to know that phrase, and what use is *that*
    as a `search` function??? Let alone that we had to get into that
    section before using the search... Shheeeeeesh!!!!)
     
    chrlz, Feb 12, 2005
    #12
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