Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs.

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by mort, Dec 23, 2004.

  1. mort

    mort Guest

    After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
    succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
    processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
    prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and

    I bought a 5MP Canon S500 Digital Elph. The pictures are sharper than
    the APS, I can print them on my home printer whenever I want to, and
    even the 8.5 x 11 " prints are sharp, with good color. Kodak seems to
    be in a downward spiral of withdrawing from conventional film, while
    not making great strides in the digital world.

    I'm planning to download images from my camera's CF cards to my PC, and
    then burning them to CD-R as data. Will this work, considering that my
    camera does only JPEG? Will I then be able to make prints from the CD-R?
    CD-R storage seems to be safer, and infinitely cheaper, than storage on
    CF cards.Thanks.

    mort, Dec 23, 2004
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  2. mort

    Darrell Guest

    APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film" in the
    early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise me they
    haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well stupidity! Let's see a
    few highlights;

    Disk Film
    Instant Film & Cameras, (aka Polaroid sued them BIG TIME!)

    They never seem to be able to foresee their direction.
    Recently Kodak did buy the Imaging sensor division of National
    Semi-Conductor. But they should have done that in 1995!
    Depends on the CD-R media, some is crap and will de-laminate. One of the
    better CD-R is Delkin's

    Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8" floppy
    disk above my computer as a reminder of this.
    Darrell, Dec 23, 2004
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  3. mort

    mort Guest

    Hi darrell,

    Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. In the meantime, I copied a CF card to a
    Maxell blank CD-R, and was then able to print from the CD-R with no problem.I've
    been using both data and music Maxell CD-R blanks for several years, with no
    problems to date.

    mort, Dec 23, 2004
  4. mort

    timeOday Guest

    Nice link, it's good to see somebody focusing on quality and longevity.
    I wonder if they will make DVDs though, CDR is getting small for
    uncompressed high-megapixel photos.
    timeOday, Dec 23, 2004
  5. mort

    dj_nme Guest

    There is a difference between blank CDs sold labelled as music as
    opposed to data CDs.
    Blank "music" CDs work in stand-alone CD recorders, like the stereo
    systems that have recorders and cannot use standard data CD blanks.
    I believe that there must some sort of label or tag pre-burnt into the
    boot(?) sector of the music CD blank that the recorder can recognise.

    The "music" labelled disks are more expensive and so I've never bothered
    trying them in my computer to burn data onto.
    dj_nme, Dec 23, 2004
  6. mort

    Darrell Guest

    I wouldn't use the cheapie spindled no-nmae CD-R for anything but temporary
    use. I would archive on the Delkin Gold CD-R's. I have a few de-laminated
    CD's from about 1998, and several that look ok but can't be read.
    Darrell, Dec 23, 2004
  7. mort

    Darrell Guest

    Darrell, Dec 23, 2004
  8. mort

    usenet Guest

    Heh. I threw out my last box of 8" floppies a few years ago, because I
    was running out of space & was only keeping them out of nostalgia.
    usenet, Dec 23, 2004
  9. mort

    dj_nme Guest

    For computer use there is no difference between "music" CDs and CDR
    blanks, but I am pretty sure that the stand-alone (or stereo system)
    music CD recorders need the special "music" CDs.
    dj_nme, Dec 23, 2004
  10. mort

    Ron Guest

    While it is excellent advice to buy the best cdr's possible for serious
    long-term archving, my hunch is that just about anything on the market
    and sold through major retailers will be just fine until dvd's take over
    completely. I've been burning on various cd media since 1998 and I don't
    think I've lost a single disc. Occasionally I back up music files burned
    a few years ago that I care about and always keep multiple copies of
    important data in my computer, and on a USB hard drive I keep in my car
    in case the house burns down. The important thing is to treat the discs
    well once burned. Don't overexpose them to light and keep them in a
    relatively cool and dry place and they will be just fine. That said, it
    will be hard to beat the low-noise cassette recordings I made in the
    mid-1970s and are still playing perfectly (the odd pressure pad
    replacemenet notwiithstanding). Oh, and remember that if you off load
    images from your discs back to your computer you must check to see if
    they have been copied back as 'read only' files. If they have just free
    them up in Explorer.
    Ron, Dec 23, 2004
  11. mort

    Jeremy Guest

    I believe that you've missed the point. APS was never marketed toward
    serious amateurs. It was an attempt to serve the consumer market, with a
    format that was near idiot-proof.

    Studies revealed that there were a significant number of consumers that
    couldn't even get their 35mm film loaded correctly. APS addressed that

    APS also exploited the recent advances in wide exposure latitude films, by
    allowing for a simple camera, without much in the way of exposure control,
    to record the image on the film, and for the lab to then correct for
    exposure at the processing level.

    All of this was just a continuation of Kodak's long-held objective of making
    photography easy for consumers. ("You push the button, we do the rest").
    That was a laudable objective. It was NOT meant as a replacement format for
    serious amateurs or professionals. I defy you to show me where Kodak ever
    marketed the format to any but consumer purchasers.

    The APS format was stymied by the advent of inexpensive 35mm Point & Shoot
    cameras, that featured autofocus and sophisticated on-board automatic
    exposure controls. I doubt that Kodak and Fuji would have developed APS had
    the autoexposure P&S cameras come out just a few years earlier than they
    did. Those P&S models even made loading film a fairly automated task. And
    with the advent of P&S cameras with zoom lenses, it really made the APS
    format irrelevant.

    Kodak has had a long record of trying to bring photography to the masses.
    Granted, those of us that have more sophisticated equipment tend to look
    down on those consumer formats. But they have served to put photography
    into the mainstream, and have made it possible for the rest of us to be able
    to buy film and to get it processed at countless locations.

    It also enabled many of us to get exposed to photography at an early age.
    Would I have become interested in photography, had my parents not owned a
    Brownie Starmite? I wonder . . .

    There are many millions of family photos, shot on simple cameras, that
    survive today. They make no pretense to being "professional." Yet my old
    family photos, many of which were taken before I was even born, are among my
    most cherished possessions.

    Thank you, Kodak.
    Jeremy, Dec 23, 2004
  12. mort

    Jeremy Guest

    The major difficulty is that neither CDs nor DVDs were designed to be
    archival media.
    Jeremy, Dec 23, 2004
  13. mort

    Ron Baird Guest

    Greetings Mort,

    Sounds like you have a great camera there, digital is amazing.

    Sorry to learn that you did not get good service from your printing efforts,
    however, did you ever try a different processor? Might make a difference if
    you use your camera in the future.

    Good luck with digital, you are going to enjoy it. By the way, the Kodak
    EasyShare software that is included with Kodak cameras includes directly
    links to processors to make it easy to print on your home printer, or via
    their digital services which are really pretty good. You may want to
    experiment with them some time. Also, once you upload your images to Ofoto,
    you can store them online and share them with others etc. if you like. They
    will also make lots of variations on your images including making a CD.

    You should be able to burn a CD of your digital images in JPG or any other
    format. The key to reading image files is in the software you use, not so
    much the CDBurner.

    Talk to you soon, Mort,

    Happy Holidays
    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company
    Ron Baird, Dec 23, 2004
  14. mort

    JunkMonkey Guest

    For stand alone recorders - Possibly, I've never used a stand alone
    recorder. However I have successfully recorded music (both mp3 and wav)
    files to standard CD blanks and they play just fine on my stereo system, my
    car player and my portable CD player.

    Until I saw this thread I was under the assumption that music CDs were
    standard blank CDs whose manufacturers paid some sort of licensing fee to
    ASCAP or something like that.
    JunkMonkey, Dec 23, 2004
  15. mort

    JunkMonkey Guest

    Everything written in this thread so far is probably true. That being said,
    however, I really enjoyed using my Canon Elph 2 (IXUS 2, Outside North
    America, I believe) and I felt the photos were great considering the format
    and ease of use of the camera. It reignited my interest in photography
    after a hiatus of almost 30 years so it can't be too bad.

    I still use it occasionally just for fun, and the local photofinishers
    around here (Central Illinois) do a pretty good job. Would I use if for
    serious photography? Probably not, especially if I expected to print larger
    than 8X10. But as a "tag-along" camera it's been great.
    JunkMonkey, Dec 23, 2004
  16. mort

    mort Guest

    Hi Ron,

    I tried replying directly to your URL, and it bounced back due to an endless
    loop at Kodak. Anyhow, I used Kodak film from the 1939-40 N.Y.World's Fair on,
    and still have many great Kodachrome slides from my 6 year residence in Europe.
    Two things finally rang the curtain on APS for me. First, the ID # and frame #
    and date on the print back were either smudged or absent, requiring me to spend
    hours doing them by hand. Then Kodak shut their NJ and CT labs, so that 2 day
    turnaround time became 5-6 day.
    Anyhow, thanks again for your nice reply.
    mort, Dec 24, 2004
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