Help Computer locks up when DV camera attached

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by keith, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. keith

    keith Guest


    I hope someone here can help me. I have a JVC GR-DVL157 and when I
    start the computer, the computer hangs up on the windows startup
    screen. This happens about 98% of the time. I follow the instructions
    (camera on first then start computer). If I turn the computer on and
    then turn the camera on once it's fully booted the system just

    If the computer fully starts with the camera hooked up (firewire), the
    software freezes as soon as I try to capture (JLIP supplied with the
    camera or Ulead video studio).

    I have a Celeron 800 with 512 133mhz memory Ram. I have an 80GB HD
    (Maxtor) and an OCHI 1394 Firewire card. The card is a NVIDIA aladdin
    TNT2 with capture downloaded from the NVIDIA site. The OS is Win 98SE.
    I know it's not he best OS for this work, but others get it to work
    and I've spent forever on this damn problem. I have both the Microsoft
    and TI camera drivers (neither makes any difference) and I've tried
    the Firewire card in every available slot in the PC. No conflicts show
    up in the device list. There's not much hair left to tear out.

    Thanks in advance

    keith, Jan 29, 2004
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  2. keith

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Sorry Keith, not enough memory. You could try two things:

    Try unloading your anti-virus software (while you're doing video work)
    and then try downloading and running EndItAll before you start, it might
    just make enough difference on a PC that is marginal for video work.

    AV software grabs a substantial amount of system resources (especially
    Norton). EndItAll will close all non-critical processes, again freeing
    up system resources.
    Tony Morgan
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice,
    there is." - Yogi Berra
    Tony Morgan, Jan 29, 2004
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  3. While it's never possible to be absolute, this looks like a driver problem,
    fairly commonplace with win98

    I'm afraid that the best solution is to upgrade to XP.

    However, try looking at the BOOTLOG.TXT file to see which drivers are causing
    the box to hang.

    Sound card, is it Creative?

    Have you reinstalled Win98?

    Have you taken out all other cards except firewire & graphics?

    Have you turned off all startup items?

    I could add to the list but this should do for now :)


    Stuart McKears
    Stuart McKears, Jan 29, 2004
  4. Have you downloaded the patches for Firewire for Win98SE from
    Microsoft? IMHO this is a *must* for Win98SE.

    Harry Broomhall, Jan 29, 2004
  5. keith

    Rick Marks Guest


    I have Win98SE with less RAM than that and it all works fine.
    Rick Marks, Jan 29, 2004
  6. keith

    SjT Guest

    512mb should be enough?!

    Keith, i would say check drivers for usb etc etc Its almost always a
    driver problem if you get problems when first booting.

    How is it crashing? Is the HDD light staying on when it's locking up?
    If it is it could be your HDD controller as i had similar problems.

    I would upgrade to XP whatever though, i know it sounds like hassle
    but you will have such an easier life with it, trust me :)
    SjT, Jan 29, 2004
  7. keith

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Yes... Really !!!
    Perhaps. But can you assure us that you have less background processes
    running than does Keith ?

    No ?

    And Ulead's Studio 7 is no slouch at gobbling up system resources (don't
    know about JLIP). You using that too?

    In case you hadn't noticed (too busy making smart-arsed comments?),
    Keith has tried the obvious things.

    So what do YOU recommend ?

    Or are you simply being a smart-arse while not contributing anything
    Tony Morgan
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice,
    there is." - Yogi Berra
    Tony Morgan, Jan 29, 2004
  8. He has plenty of memory

    Ulead website says

    "Real-time features perform best with at least:

    512 MB RAM"

    Which he says he has running at 133MHz

    What are you saying, that Ulead needs a gig of memory.

    Don't give incorrect advice - a minimum of 256 MByte of ram should be sufficient
    to at least run most editing applications.

    What type of resources are you talking about - User Resources or GDI both of
    which in Win98 have a maximum fixed size of 64Kb and no amount of extra memory
    will increase that. Multi media applications or drivers gobble up GDI objects
    which does cause problems in Win98 especially if the application or driver
    doesn't release the object quickly - XP doesn't have the same limitations.

    Or are your confusing memory with resources?

    Stuart McKears
    Stuart McKears, Jan 29, 2004
  9. keith

    Jerry. Guest

    So all the others who / have / offered alternate constructive advise must
    also be smart-arse's.

    Every time someone has a problem you come out with the same crap about
    memory and advising the use of a program that no one else (in DV system
    building / publishing) seems to suggest or even mention....
    Jerry., Jan 29, 2004
  10. keith

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Stuart McKears

    Have you thought about giving advice, *any* advice in the context of
    what the OP has already said?

    Naturally..... not !
    Tony Morgan
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice,
    there is." - Yogi Berra
    Tony Morgan, Jan 29, 2004
  11. keith

    Rick Marks Guest

    14 from my task list - with no other apps running. Keith hasn't told
    us about his so clearly I can't make a comparison. I do use NAV5 and
    haven't found the need to unload it.
    Yes, I'm exclusively using Ulead VS7 for capture under 98SE. However
    if the OP's system is hanging on boot it is quite likely he hasn't yet
    run VS7 so that deduction of yours seems incorrect to me.
    No need to resort to abuse, Tony. We have a rich language - please
    use it.
    I had nothing specific to recommend beyond what else had been posted
    at the time of my reply so I didn't make any assertions I didn't
    believe I could justify.

    I was merely suggesting that with a fairly similar setup but less RAM
    I've not seen his problem and that the singleton conclusion you
    reached might be a little premature.
    Not at all. Merely recounting related user experience which I judge
    to count as useful evidence in the fault-finding of a clearly
    difficult problem. You simply resorting to verbal abuse in retort is
    not especially constructive.
    Rick Marks, Jan 29, 2004
  12. I'm sure everybody else who reads this group will see that you are being not
    only dimly rude but also stupidly incompetent - look at my original post to this
    thread at about midday.

    The fact that you can make such an incorrect statement and ignore the more
    salient points of my 2nd post to this thread is a sad reflection on your general
    inability to actually confront any question that is complicated.

    Stuart McKears
    Stuart McKears, Jan 29, 2004
  13. keith

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Which would take Keith what?.... about four or more hours?
    I hope you don't work in an IT environment since if you did your systems
    must be regularly down for a not inconsiderable times :)

    What I suggested would take up only minutes.
    Ummm... I don't feel the need to exercise my ego by tekkie stuff, rather
    I try to offer pragmatic (and proven) solutions - in this particular
    case has, over the last 18 months, provided a solution *which has
    worked* for hundreds of people here and elsewhere.

    Studio 7 (like Premiere) is particularly sensitive to background
    processes. I might add that though I run a relatively high-spec'd
    machine, I still do (on rare occasions if I'm running anything other
    that EditStudio or Vegas) have problems in this area if I don't first
    run EndItAll.

    As soon as you start paging into VM then you''ve got a chance of running
    into problems. Fortunately, XP (which I run) is a rather more forgiving
    than pre-Win2k/XP - but even then you know when you've gone into VM.

    I'm not saying that Keith's problem is not a driver-related thing
    (though he had already said that he'd tried two different drivers) - but
    ISTM that trying something that has sometimes worked (as many people
    have found out) that takes only a few moments, is a better first step
    than re-installing the OS, which is (one of the things) that you
    Tony Morgan, Jan 29, 2004
  14. keith

    Jerry. Guest

    Half the trouble with 'our' Mr Morgan is that he doesn't read the question
    asked :~(
    Jerry., Jan 29, 2004
  15. keith

    Jerry. Guest


    How can the OP run 'Endit All' if he can even Start-it All ?!
    You obviously didn't bother reading further than the subject line, which is
    your normal error, and you always gat flack from it - one day you might just
    learn that you need to read the whole question before trying to be (now what
    did you call Rick, oh, I know) a smart arse...
    Jerry., Jan 29, 2004
  16. keith

    Rick Marks Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:08:12 +0000, Stuart McKears

    [SNIP good ideas]
    If not drivers, a long shot might be power considerations.

    When active, an OHCI controller chip draws around 220mA (and as a 3.3v
    device, probably from the 3.3v rail).

    In an oldish system (it's a 800MHz Celeron) with a feeble PSU, an
    active card might just cause instability. Inactive or unconnected
    1394 cards have an ultra-low power mode and draw just a fraction of a

    This might explain why using actively the device locks up the system.
    Especially if the OP has numerous other power hungry devices in his
    Rick Marks, Jan 29, 2004
  17. keith

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Not so much a long shot. In fact a USB card can pull down the power
    supply on the PCI bus down far enough to cause mis-operation of the
    firewire card. That's why many USB cards have a power supply connector
    which can be fed from the hard-disk power cable loom.

    There's something about this (as well as other issues) at:
    Tony Morgan
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice,
    there is." - Yogi Berra
    Tony Morgan, Jan 30, 2004
  18. keith

    keith Guest

    Well thank you all for your advice. I have downloaded the MS Firewire
    patches. I will try all of these things in turn of simplest first and
    see if I can't resolve the problem. BTW I seem to have opened up a can
    of worms. Was it something that I said?


    keith, Jan 30, 2004
  19. keith

    Jerry. Guest

    No, just something Mr Morgan said, your question just acted as the
    Jerry., Jan 30, 2004
  20. No I don't, I'm doing the same job that I've done for the past 25+ years though
    along the way, I've diverted into some interesting areas including writing two
    books in the early to mid 80s about computers.
    It's not a solution, it might work but it does not solve the underlying problem.
    You will also either have to reboot or manually restart processes after editing
    or capture or whatever. If you don't need too, then you don't need the processes
    and so they should never be started on boot.
    It's not that Studio 7 or EditStudio or Vegas are necessarily oversensitive to
    background processes, the problem lies with the user running an unsuitable
    background process. Your "solution" is to kill all background processes without
    any understanding of what they might be doing. Find out which process is causing
    the problem and you will cure the problem as well as getting a better
    understanding of your computer..
    Virtual memory should not be a problem, modern hard drives are well fast enough
    - remember firewire capture buffers directly to disc. The only problem that can
    arise is if data and/or program VM is not contiguous which will slow things down
    but is unlikely to cause a machine to permanently hang.

    The major problem, as I've already said, in pre XP is the limited size of the
    user and GDI heap - for example, an invalid image handle will almost always
    cause a gpf and a hang if it's not handled correctly.

    Stuart McKears
    Stuart McKears, Jan 30, 2004
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