Help from the experts on this one please

Discussion in 'Photoshop' started by Paul Burdett, Aug 14, 2004.

  1. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Hi all,
    OK..I'm off overseas in 5 weeks time and I'd like to come home, make a
    panorama pic using PS7 (or the stitch software that came with my Canon A70),
    get it printed at approx 3x1 feet (not sure of exact size), get it
    professionally framed and finally hang it on my lounge room wall! Seems
    simple?..well, here's my questions:

    1. As I can only take pics using jpeg I estimate the file size of each shot
    of the panorama to be around 3 mb. I will probably take around 5-6 shots to
    make the final panorama. After stitching the pics together should I save as
    jpeg or tiff? (I'm thinking tiff)

    2. In PS should I then resize the pic at 200 or 300 pixels per inch ? (I've
    just read a previous thread where it was suggested that 200 would be ok, (
    as the pic will be viewed from 5-6 feet away)

    3. In PS I would assume "constrain proportions" should be ticked?

    4. What is the most suitable resample setting...bicubic, bilinear, nearest
    neighbor? (I'm thinking bicubic)

    5. Assuming I save the resulting file to a cd and take it along for
    professional printing how do I guarantee that the printed image will be as I
    see it on my monitor? I was told some time ago from the woman at my local
    printers that I could just print my pic out at home, (before resizing it on
    my computer) and if happy with the colours etc bring it in to them and they
    would do the resizing and printing. Is this the best option?

    Many thanks in advance...I do appreciate and value the help from this
    newsgroup. I probably won't be going overseas again for many years, so I'd
    like to get it right (lol)

    Paul Burdett, Aug 14, 2004
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  2. Paul Burdett

    arrooke Guest

    Hi all,
    Presuming that you and the camera return safely . . .
    Either will do. Tiff will be a huge file. JPEG is a lossy format, meaning
    you can loose information, but that only happens when you are altering &
    re-saving. Since you are likely to be editing as a psd (Photoshop) file, why
    not make a PDF. It will give you a smaller file size and also retain all
    However, since you have a 700 MB CD; first choice would be PDF, then EPS,
    TIFF, JPG.
    It will be digitally printed on a large ink jet type plotter. 200 ppi should
    do - maybe slightly higher. You don't need 300. Double check with the
    printer. You may also be constrained somewhat by the maximum size of your
    original image. Is it digital camera or 35 mm?
    Yes. Don't want to be out of proportion.
    You'll know after it's done. heh,heh. Make a smaller copy of the file. Say
    to fit on 11 x 17 (tabloid) size and have that digitally printed first (not
    home inkjet). That should give you a good idea of where you are with colour.
    Have fun. Not going to Iraq I hope.
    arrooke, Aug 14, 2004
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  3. I added extra emphasis to parts of this post due to my experiences with the
    general public.

    Tiff - BEFORE stitching them.
    Tiff - AFTER.

    Keep COPIES.
    Keep MULTIPLE copies as you work - version 1, version 2, and more.
    NO! Once you have made your panorama, look at how large Photoshop thinks
    that your image is. At 2-3 MB, each piece of the panorama is prolly 8x11
    inches (approximate). The entire panorama - is it as large as you need it
    to be, in INCHES? Is it too small? Too big?

    A picture that is TOO BIG can be shrunk. UNCLICK the "resample" box.
    Change the ***INCHES*** dimensions so that it is "small enough" and notice
    that the resolution INCREASES. Happy days!

    If the panorama is TOO SMALL, change the ***inches*** dimension. Leave the
    Dpi ALONE for now.

    For a poster printed at Kinko's (for example), 75 dpi is FINE.
    Do not resample. Resampling is not what you want for this image. It is a
    last resort if the final panorama simply is too small (less than 50 Dpi at
    the size that you want).
    Forget it. This is way out of your range. You will not get "monitor
    perfect" results, for reasons that take far to long to explain here.
    No, but it would probably work.
    So long as you have the ORIGINALS INTACT, you can make as many attempts to
    get this right as you have patience. Did I mention keeping a pristine copy
    of the originals? I am not joking - so many times I have worked on
    soemthing, and then, oops, too bad ...

    Kinko's will print a poster size printout on the cheap. TRY IT. It's a good
    test of what your poster will look like at full size. You may even like the
    results so much that you have the output framed! Keep in mind that you may
    have to have it reprinted and reframed from time to time.

    The Doormouse
    The Doormouse, Aug 14, 2004
  4. Paul Burdett

    V1nc3nt Guest

    You must be in a good mood Doormouse ;)
    V1nc3nt, Aug 14, 2004
  5. Paul Burdett

    V1nc3nt Guest

    V1nc3nt, Aug 14, 2004
  6. yeh I think she has a terrible boss

    Arty Phacting, Aug 14, 2004
  7. even worse that that m8



    Arty Phacting, Aug 15, 2004

  8. Paul, I have recently purchased a Canon A70 for an acquaintance and did
    some test shoots with it, including panoramas.
    Firstly, as you correctly state the Canon A70 Powershot only outputs
    images in JPEG, so they will already be compressed/lossy before turning
    into TIFF. So what's the point? Well, normally there would be little
    point, but as you will see in my workflow 'c' below, you will need them
    to be in TIFF format for using a vignette correcting software called
    EnBlend. Just make sure you use the camera's JPEG Superfine (i.e.
    Maximum quality) setting at whatever resoulution/image size you prefer,
    for the best possible quality (which is very good, and you may just want
    to lose any JPEG artifacts by using Neat Image first. However, it is a
    time limited trial program so you'll have to work quickly! Get it here:

    In addition to all the other tips offered by others in this thread, you
    will also have to consider how you will 'stitch' together digital images
    containing 1. Lens pincushion and barrel distortion, and 2. Vignetting
    around the peripheral field of view which will make your images look a
    bit like a patchwork quilt. (Both these undesirable side effects are
    present on most digital prosumer cameras with optical zoom lenses, BTW).
    If the panoramic composition is to be a treasured pride & joy, then I
    suggest you prepare yourself for some hard, but enjoyable work! Here is
    my suggested workflow you will need to prepare for:

    a) You will first need to rid your images of the 'barrelling' problem.
    There are several 3rd party software offerings to do this (e.g.
    LensDoc and Power Retouche) , but most come at a hefty price. However,
    there is one free one called PTLens by Thomas Niemann, which is designed
    to work on the back of another piece of software called Panorama Tools,
    which I mention below in connection with stitching the images together.
    Although it needs a lens 'profile' to work, it doesn't include this
    model of camera in its list of pre-profiled devices. The software
    developer will profile your camera for you for free, but I tried the
    profile for the Pentax 230 camera and it did an excellent job on the
    Canon A70 images (You will need to trick the software into accepting
    your camera's EXIF data though, so follow his guidelines given in his
    included PDF documentation). However, my panoramics were not outdoor
    landscapes, so the mathematics for that lens may not work at the longer
    distances you will be shooting from. In that event, I suggest you follow
    his instructions on how to submit your own images to him for profiling
    first. As an added bonus, this program will NOT strip out the EXIF
    information stored in the JPEG images, unlike the other software I have
    mentioned. So you can use PTLens to correct all your 1x shot photos
    prior to printing on PictBridge compliant printers.
    Get PTLens and tutorial here from ePaperPress:

    b) Stitch the images together. (Don't use the Canon Panoramic Stitching
    software, as it is very hit & miss)
    Get the free software written by the well regarded authority in
    digital optics, Helmut Dersch, called Panorama Tools.

    There is also another one called Hugin avalable here:
    http:// although I haven't personal
    experience of it.

    You might also want to give another and more automated tool a try,
    although I have not used it myself yet.
    It's called AutoPano and is obtainable here:

    c) Remove the vignetting.
    EnBlend is your free solution here, although on this occasion you
    will have to output your images from Panorama Tools as TIFF's to work
    with this program, I believe. Go here for it:

    HTH and bon voyage!
    The Signatory, Aug 15, 2004
  9. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Thank you so much for the info! It is much appreciated.,
    Paul Burdett, Aug 15, 2004
  10. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Many thanks for your is much appreciated.
    Paul Burdett, Aug 15, 2004
  11. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Hi Nigel,
    Many thanks for your detailed is very much appreciated. I will
    check out all the software you suggest. I did have a look at Panotools some
    time ago, but felt the learning curve was quite steep (for me anyway). I
    guess I'll just have to go into "study" mode and revisit it
    again..especially if I want a good result. Meanwhile. I'll take plenty of
    pics, make copies of the originals, and use the software I already have to
    make the panorama, and then try the ones you suggest and compare the
    results. Thank you for your good wishes!
    Paul Burdett, Aug 15, 2004
  12. Yes, it will be a bit of a chore getting to grips with the software, and
    who said the 'darkroom' was dead?!! ;-)
    Maybe you can post a link here to your final image when you're done?

    Cheers from a very drenched UK! Make sure you bring a brolly, as it
    looks like we are having a very wet summer over here with plenty of fash
    floods. (Just had the dying remnants of an atlantic hurricane over us.)
    Still, the dry bits in between are quite nice...he he!
    The Signatory, Aug 15, 2004
  13. Oh, and I forgot to mention that there is a program called PTGui which
    attempts to automate PanoTools with a wizard-type interface. Again, it's
    only available on a time limited trial basis before you must register
    it, but it could be worth it for you.....
    Go here:
    The Signatory, Aug 15, 2004
  14. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Thanks again Nigel...hopefully it won't rain all the time....don't want to
    get my A70 too wet (lol). We're visiting all the places I never saw when I
    lived in London...Scotland, Wales, Devon, Cornwall, etc etc (came to
    Australia when I was 16)...hopefully I'll get plenty of "dry" pics!
    I checked out the PTlens..couldn't see how to "trick" the program into
    getting the Canon A70 profile though. Also downloaded Panotools (but didn't
    install) and there was no pdf help file in the folder after unzipping. I'll
    check out PTGui now. I'll be sure to post a link to any worthwhile pics, but
    meanwhile (& I hope this is ok to do so) here is a link to my online
    gallery, which does have a few panoramas of Brisbane. Hope you like my pics:
    Paul Burdett, Aug 15, 2004
  15. Paul, if I may, I'll email the 2 profile.txt files I 'amended' to make
    PTLens work. I assume your email address given in the properties to your
    posts is correct.(i.e. pburdett 'at'

    I'll also check out your link shortly. ;-)
    The Signatory, Aug 15, 2004
  16. Paul, you have post!

    BTW, I forgot to mention in my email that you *must* have the PanoTools
    DLL file (pano12.dll) installed in your Windows Sytem folder, and that
    you set the path to tell where PTLens can find PanoTool's 'Stitcher'
    program (PTStitcher.exe located in the PanoTools 'Helper' folder), which
    it also needs to run. So, all in all, I should install the PanoTools
    software pronto.
    The Signatory, Aug 15, 2004
  17. You are welcome. Enjoy your poster :)

    The Doormouse
    The Doormouse, Aug 15, 2004
  18. Paul Burdett

    Stephan Guest

    I don't mean to sound too pessimistic here but I suggest you try to stitch
    anything with your software before you plan on large prints.
    Unless you have found the nodal point of your lens and have a way to correct
    its distortions making a panorama is more complicated that it sounds.
    I tried the Canon software and the output was horrible.
    If you want to know more here are a few helpful links

    Stephan, Aug 18, 2004
  19. Paul Burdett

    Paul Burdett Guest

    Thank you for the links,

    Paul Burdett, Aug 22, 2004
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