Help my daughter/s-i-l out

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Tony Cooper, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    The extra step I was referring to is opening the RAW file in Elements
    (which is what they use), making adjustments there, opening the file
    to process as a .jpg, and then having to save-as a .jpg. In LR, it's
    a simpler process and they would only need to export as a .jpg.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 8, 2014
    #21
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  2. You need a program that provides a decent histogram
    display.

    That image is *clearly* over exposed. Look at the data
    climbing the wall at the right edge. That's clipped
    whites.
    Okay, you *can* see it and just haven't got a clue what a
    histogram display means...
    With a D2XS, that has only 6 stops of dynamic range at
    ISO 320, and shooting a scene that probably has 18 or
    even more stops... well yes, something has to give.
    Exposure is critical, and when the highlights that are
    desired are clipped while the shadows and make little
    difference don't even go to black, one might say it is
    operator error. Eh?
    Do people there surf on cloudy days?
    Yep. But not that won't really cure anything, it will
    just make the critical part a little less critical.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #22
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  3. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    Floyd is correct, with a quick look at the histogram the problem is obvious.
    < https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_550.jpg >
    The basic histogram is good, but on the extreme right the clipped
    highlights are wiping out any detail. So stop down a hair and use the
    EV adjustment to dial things back a bit.

    The camera used not withstanding, it is going to be important to either
    spot meter or center weight average on the highlights, in this case the
    foam of breaking waves, etc. So, definately ETTR, *exposure To The
    Right*.
    Once the basic exposure for this scene in this light is figured out
    check the histogram for clipped highlights & the good old "Blinkies",
    and use the EV adjustment as required.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 8, 2014
    #23
  4. My kids have kids who have kids.

    That makes me a great grandfather, but my kids are still my kids.
    Yes, that's best with the D2XS.
    Stingy old man!
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #24
  5. Okay, stingy isn't the right word, you miserly old fart.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #25
  6. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Uhh..they're already wet, Floyd. Surfers surf when there's waves.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 8, 2014
    #26
  7. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    In that light ISO400-ISO800.
    Good Luck with that.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 8, 2014
    #27
  8. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    The problem is blown highlights. A CPL isn't going to help too much.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 8, 2014
    #28
  9. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    When I bought the camera, I promised myself I'd buy a better camera
    when I became a good enough photographer that the camera was the only
    thing that was holding me back from better photographs.

    That hasn't happened yet.

    It's always tempting to buy newer and better equipment, but we mostly
    fool ourselves if we think that a better camera will result in better
    photographs.

    Send two people out with cameras and tell them to come back with a
    good photograph, and the winner will not necessarily be the one with
    the better camera. It will be the one who sees what could make a good
    photograph, who composes that scene correctly, and who understands
    what settings to use for the shot.

    I see far too many mediocre images taken with superior cameras to
    think that it's the equipment that determines success.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 8, 2014
    #29
  10. What exactly is "EV adjustment"?

    EV is Exposure Value, or the reading from a light meter.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #30
  11. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    Once more my poor selection of words and letters has bitten me in the
    butt. I should have used the term (for Nikon at least) of "Exposure
    compensation". I might well have been misled by the what can be found
    in my D300S manual. (I have to stop reading those things, they are
    starting to confuse me.)
    < https://db.tt/bn8P9ZaB >
     
    Savageduck, Feb 8, 2014
    #31
  12. He's using a Nikon D2XS. Don't even think about ISO 800 when
    less can be used. The light value for the shot he showed was
    12.5 EV, so with his lens wide open he used 1/800 shutter at
    ISO 320. Maybe stopping down 1/2 a stop or more would have
    help.

    The real need was was less exposure, so increasing the ISO would
    not have been a good idea.
    The only fancy things to expect from your kids are grand
    kids, not cameras.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #32
  13. Well, I wasn't going to mention that...
    That is almost right. It's not the one who sees what
    makes a good photo. It's the one who knows which good
    photo to look for when using *that* camera.

    Your posted photo is a great example, because while a
    D2XS was once the best professional camera made by
    Nikon, and because it was indeed a pro model is still
    worth considering to be a *very* nice camera... the
    fact is that the bottom of the Nikon line today will
    shoot surfing pictures that are vastly better than
    anything that D2XS can do.

    It is not difficult to do with a D3200, and it is
    relatively not at all easy with a D2XS.
    I see far too many potential photographs that cannot be
    shot with mediocre cameras to miss the fact that a great
    camera is a wonderful thing to own.

    The great camera doesn't necessarily make the
    photographer great, but you just don't see great
    photographers running around very often snapping shots
    with shitty cameras either. It's a waste to of time.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #33
  14. I thought that you probably meant EC rather than EV, but
    didn't want to jump on you until it was positive.

    With that in mind, your statement to "stop down a hair
    and use the EV adjustment to dial things back a bit" is
    absurd! At least if you meant what you said. The
    Exposure Compensation will counter *anything* you do to
    "stop down"! Crank it down with one hand and crank it
    right back with the other...

    I hope, though, that you really meant to use EC to "dial
    things back a bit" as the way to "stop down a hair".
    Hence a +1 EC would reduce exposure by 1 stop.

    The same is almost as true about the advice on metering
    the whites. It isn't the way to fix anything. Meter
    with spot or with center weighted if you like, and use
    ETTR if you are smart. But the point still amounts to
    looking at either the scene or the histogram and
    realizing that the highlights are more than the typical
    2.7 stops above an average reading.

    EC needs to be used to *drop* the exposure down to where
    the highlights are not clipping. The easy way to be
    sure is to use ETTR by taking a test shot and adjusting
    accordingly. Use Priority Aperture or Priority Shutter,
    or AutoISO (whichever you like) to adjust for light
    changes do to random clouds or whatever. Obviously that
    has to been done before one starts shooting a one shot
    is all you get opportunity such as the dolphin.

    But that histogram and the blinking highlight display is
    *the* way to avoid clipping such highlights.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 8, 2014
    #34
  15. Tony Cooper

    George Kerby Guest

    Get a camera that shoots RAW, it saved my ass more than once.
     
    George Kerby, Feb 8, 2014
    #35
  16. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Their cameras do have the ability to shoot RAW. They are reluctant to
    use RAW, but may be persuaded to do so now that they have Lightroom.
    It's getting them to engage in a different kind of workflow than they
    are accustomed to that's the problem.

    I shoot RAW exclusively, but that has not prevented blow-outs in all
    images or allowed me to recover images with blow-out problems. It's
    great, but it's not magic.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 8, 2014
    #36
  17. 1) Shoot in RAW mode to capture more dynamic range

    2) Get a polarizer to eliminate that intense blue/grey glare on the
    water. Glare washes out details and colors.

    3) Use manual exposure. It sounds like a hassle but there's little time
    spent adjusting it when you're shooting the same kind of photo over and
    over. Auto exposure is always going to cause problems photos that have
    very bright and very dark areas.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Feb 8, 2014
    #37
  18. Tony Cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Yep. Even the JPG shows things piled up at the right.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 8, 2014
    #38
  19. Tony Cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Eh?

    I've been shooting by histogram for years. But I usually use RAW.
    Not in this case. There is a little room to shift to the left but not
    enough to unpack the right. I would say the exposure was almost spot
    on but the camera has insufficient dynamic range to cope with the
    image.
    Actually I meant a 'more' suitable light.
    In this part of the world they surf when there is surf.
    Exactly.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 8, 2014
    #39
  20. Tony Cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    What you are suggesting is alright in theory but lighting under these
    conditions is so variable that it would be surprising to get the
    exposure on every shot to exactly fit the dynamic range. Exposing to
    the left will help protect the highlights but then you will have a lot
    of very dark patches in the water.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 8, 2014
    #40
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