Help my daughter/s-i-l out

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Tony Cooper, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Tony Cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:57:15 -0500, Tony Cooper
    :
    : >On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 13:21:12 +1300, Eric Stevens
    : >
    : >>On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 02:08:37 -0900, (Floyd L.
    : >>Davidson) wrote:
    : >>
    : >>>>On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:19:19 -0800, Savageduck
    : >>>>
    : >>>>>On 2014-02-07 17:54:12 +0000, Tony Cooper <> said:
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>> My daughter and son-in-law live in a beach town in northern Florida
    : >>>>>> and do quite a bit of photography involving ocean waves. S-I-L does
    : >>>>>> mostly surfers.
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>> Too often, the whitecaps result in blow-out and complete absence of
    : >>>>>> color and detail. Like this:
    : >>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgkqm8u7dxxoach/166c.jpg
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>> Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>Floyd is correct, with a quick look at the histogram the problem is obvious.
    : >>>>>< https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_550.jpg >
    : >>>>>The basic histogram is good, but on the extreme right the clipped
    : >>>>>highlights are wiping out any detail. So stop down a hair and use the
    : >>>>>EV adjustment to dial things back a bit.
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>The camera used not withstanding, it is going to be important to either
    : >>>>>spot meter or center weight average on the highlights, in this case the
    : >>>>>foam of breaking waves, etc. So, definately ETTR, *exposure To The
    : >>>>>Right*.
    : >>>>>Once the basic exposure for this scene in this light is figured out
    : >>>>>check the histogram for clipped highlights & the good old "Blinkies",
    : >>>>>and use the EV adjustment as required.
    : >>>>
    : >>>>What you are suggesting is alright in theory but lighting under these
    : >>>>conditions is so variable that it would be surprising to get the
    : >>>>exposure on every shot to exactly fit the dynamic range. Exposing to
    : >>>>the left will help protect the highlights but then you will have a lot
    : >>>>of very dark patches in the water.
    : >>>
    : >>>It's not just in theory, but in practice it will produce the results
    : >>>that Tony asked for. Making the shadows dark isn't going to destroy
    : >>>the image in the same way that clipping highlights does.
    : >>>
    : >>>Incidentally, how is lighting "so variable" under those conditions?
    : >>>No clouds and the background is always the ocean! It's not going to
    : >>>change much in any given hour until within about an hour of sunset.
    : >>
    : >>Who said no clouds?
    : >>
    : >>Further, the objects you are photographing are changing shape and
    : >>alignment all the time.
    : >
    : >There's a lighting aspect in shooting surfers that is different from
    : >just clouds. What the surfer wants is to be recognizable in the
    : >photo. The surfer is generally surfing with the sun at his/her back on
    : >the east coast, and in many of the photos the face is dark when the
    : >water looks right. Even the surfer's body position affects this.
    :
    : You are assuming particular circumstances. You should come over here
    : and try different circumstances. Here is a well known surf beach on
    : the west coast. http://tinyurl.com/luos3nb

    Whatever else it does, that set of photos provides an interesting object
    lesson on when tilted horizons work and when they don't.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Feb 13, 2014
    #81
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  2. Tony Cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 20:51:47 -0500, Tony Cooper
    :
    : >On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:26:34 +1300, Eric Stevens
    : >
    : >>On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:05:00 -0500, Tony Cooper
    : >>
    : >>>On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 20:02:09 +1300, Eric Stevens
    : >>>
    : >>>>On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:57:15 -0500, Tony Cooper
    : >>>>
    : >>>>>On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 13:21:12 +1300, Eric Stevens
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>>On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 02:08:37 -0900, (Floyd L.
    : >>>>>>Davidson) wrote:
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:19:19 -0800, Savageduck
    : >>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>On 2014-02-07 17:54:12 +0000, Tony Cooper <> said:
    : >>>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>> My daughter and son-in-law live in a beach town in northern Florida
    : >>>>>>>>>> and do quite a bit of photography involving ocean waves. S-I-L does
    : >>>>>>>>>> mostly surfers.
    : >>>>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>> Too often, the whitecaps result in blow-out and complete absence of
    : >>>>>>>>>> color and detail. Like this:
    : >>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgkqm8u7dxxoach/166c.jpg
    : >>>>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
    : >>>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>Floyd is correct, with a quick look at the histogram the problem is obvious.
    : >>>>>>>>>< https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_550.jpg >
    : >>>>>>>>>The basic histogram is good, but on the extreme right the clipped
    : >>>>>>>>>highlights are wiping out any detail. So stop down a hair and use the
    : >>>>>>>>>EV adjustment to dial things back a bit.
    : >>>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>>The camera used not withstanding, it is going to be important to either
    : >>>>>>>>>spot meter or center weight average on the highlights, in this case the
    : >>>>>>>>>foam of breaking waves, etc. So, definately ETTR, *exposure To The
    : >>>>>>>>>Right*.
    : >>>>>>>>>Once the basic exposure for this scene in this light is figured out
    : >>>>>>>>>check the histogram for clipped highlights & the good old "Blinkies",
    : >>>>>>>>>and use the EV adjustment as required.
    : >>>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>>What you are suggesting is alright in theory but lighting under these
    : >>>>>>>>conditions is so variable that it would be surprising to get the
    : >>>>>>>>exposure on every shot to exactly fit the dynamic range. Exposing to
    : >>>>>>>>the left will help protect the highlights but then you will have a lot
    : >>>>>>>>of very dark patches in the water.
    : >>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>It's not just in theory, but in practice it will produce the results
    : >>>>>>>that Tony asked for. Making the shadows dark isn't going to destroy
    : >>>>>>>the image in the same way that clipping highlights does.
    : >>>>>>>
    : >>>>>>>Incidentally, how is lighting "so variable" under those conditions?
    : >>>>>>>No clouds and the background is always the ocean! It's not going to
    : >>>>>>>change much in any given hour until within about an hour of sunset.
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>>Who said no clouds?
    : >>>>>>
    : >>>>>>Further, the objects you are photographing are changing shape and
    : >>>>>>alignment all the time.
    : >>>>>
    : >>>>>There's a lighting aspect in shooting surfers that is different from
    : >>>>>just clouds. What the surfer wants is to be recognizable in the
    : >>>>>photo. The surfer is generally surfing with the sun at his/her back on
    : >>>>>the east coast, and in many of the photos the face is dark when the
    : >>>>>water looks right. Even the surfer's body position affects this.
    : >>>>
    : >>>>You are assuming particular circumstances. You should come over here
    : >>>>and try different circumstances. Here is a well known surf beach on
    : >>>>the west coast. http://tinyurl.com/luos3nb
    : >>>
    : >>>I'm not assuming anything, but perhaps I should have specified that
    : >>>I'm referring to the surfer that my son-in-law is photographing. I
    : >>>would think that would be clear from the thread.
    : >>
    : >>Yes. That point dawned me just after I hit send. We are both guilty of
    : >>taking mental sets which conflict. Yours was set by your S-I-L and
    : >>mine by discussion with Floyd.
    : >
    : >S'OK. A discussion with Floyd could leave anyone reeling.
    :
    : Floyd's OK but he does seem a little more grumpy than usual. Nothing
    : personal Floyd: for what it is worth I do respect your knowledge.

    You'd be grumpy too if you lived at the north pole and were squarely in the
    middle of winter. It's bad enough sitting here in suburban Boston, waiting for
    the winter's 5th or 6th big snowstorm to slam into us.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Feb 13, 2014
    #82
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  3. Tony Cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    Snow!
    We could do with some sort of winter precipitation out here, snow,
    rain, something wet. Anything to break the drought. We are looking at
    75ºF for today's high and not a drop of rain in sight.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 13, 2014
    #83
  4. Tony Cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    An awful lot of photographers don't seem to have bothered with the
    horizon.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 13, 2014
    #84
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