HELP: Software Options for Editing MPG's

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Nick Knight, Dec 23, 2004.

  1. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    Hi,

    The long story ... see QUESTION below to skip the background, please!

    About a year ago I purchased a PC with all the video and DVD gadgets I've
    always wanted. And I've had some solid success copy VHS tapes to DVD and
    creating DVD's from digitally recorded TV and even copying DVD's.

    I've spent way more on software than I care to admit. Much of it, in
    hindsight, was a waste of money. However, I thought I had a working set
    that was solid. Now I'm thinking again :)

    I've used Showbiz DVD 2 for editing MPG's. It came bundled with my machine
    and seemed easy enough to use, if not a little quirky at times. For one
    hour TV shows, I can fairly easily trim out commercials. On my machine it's
    workable, albeit also a bit slow. On my SO's machine (identical to mine), I
    can't edit even a short clip in a reasonable timeframe. The software seems
    to swap miserably. And constantly.

    I recently recorded a show on PBS. The total was 3+ hours, but it had all
    of the membership drive stuff mixed in. Actually, thinking about it, it was
    4 hours total w/probably about 2-2.5 or so hours of real material. Several
    problems became apparent while working with this clip.

    I was able to copy the first 2+ hours of the segment to a separate MPG and
    cut out the commercials and membership drive data. This worked OK, but it
    was painfully slow trying to move around the video. Constant disk activity,
    although CPU was always reasonably low use. I've got 512MB on this machine,
    and I had closed out anything else that might have caused stress.

    Trying to extract the second half of the video into a separate MPG became
    the biggest challenge. We'll call it seemingly impossible, although, given
    a couple of weeks, I might have been able to get the job done. I even added
    another 512 MB (1gig total RAM) to my machine figuring it would help. It
    made no difference at all.

    It also appears that the second half of the original MPG (converted from
    dvr-ms format) lost its sound anyway. So, I'll have to look for another
    chance to get the second half. I don't know if this was the cable channel
    itself, the dvr-ms file recording or the conversion to MPEG. I can
    certainly limit my recordings to 2 hour segments in the future.

    QUESTION

    What are the MPG Editor options that a) work and work efficiently with small
    AND large files and b) are not cost-prohibitive. Cost is a subjecttive area
    .... I'll pay for something that works, but I'm not really wanting to spend
    hundreds more. Freeware? Am I dreaming??? :)

    I just tried something that seemed to work and I liked. Editing was TOO
    easy and quick ... let's see what it is called: VideoReDo. However, the
    resulting MPG file is herky-jerky; strange, short speedups every 2-3
    seconds. Great editing, but it doesn't do me much good it the results don't
    save correctly.

    What do you all prefer as far as editing MPG files does? Are there any
    inexpensive yet functional and stable products to try?

    Thanks in advance for all opinions,

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Dec 23, 2004
    #1
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  2. Nick Knight

    Ken Maltby Guest

    ------------------------------
    This jerky performance, is it only in VideoReDo's editing preview,
    or is it there when the .mpg is played afterwards ?

    Are you getting any of the red text messages after the cuts are
    processed?

    Have you tried adjusting any of the settings?
    ----------------------------
     
    Ken Maltby, Dec 23, 2004
    #2
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  3. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    I saved the edited clip to disk as a new MPG. Playing that MPG back shows
    the jerky behaviour.
    I didn't see any red text messages. I also wasn't paying attention. This
    is on saving the MPG? I walked away after a minute or so of that. I saw no
    error messages.
    Nope. I suppose I'll take a look, since you mentioned it. I take it you
    use and like this product? I'd love to see it save correctly. I'd be happy
    then!

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Dec 23, 2004
    #3
  4. Nick Knight

    Biz Guest

    Make sure your issues arent related to PAL and NTSC video mixups. What is
    the source video(PAL/NTSC), what output settings are you using(PAL/NTSC).
     
    Biz, Dec 23, 2004
    #4
  5. Set apart a few GB on the disk for Linux,
    simple editing of mpeg (per GOP) use lve.
    Want more complicated stuff, try http://heroinewarrior.com
    So how much have you spend now?
    Nopes if you downloaded Linux, else, strongly recommended for a beginner
    with Unix, get some distribution, sets you back maybe 50$, and gives you
    thousands of free not limited programs that really use your hardware to the
    full extend, support 64 bit platforms, best networking these exists.
    Designed for performance, not made like a dog with 3 legs as MS windows.
    JP
     
    Jan Panteltje, Dec 23, 2004
    #5
  6. Nick Knight

    Ken Maltby Guest

    You might try using different players, as the playback codec used
    could be a factor, although I've never found one that had a problem
    with VideoReDo's output.
    They would have been in the gray box that pops up after
    the new .mpg is processed.

    It has worked great for me. Another thing you might try is
    running the effected .mpg through the "Quickfix", it might find
    the problem and fix it. Oh, and how does it work with .mpg
    from another source and other ones from the same source?
    ( It might help to know if the problem is related to an
    interaction with certain .mpg or more general.)

    I looked through the forum at: http://forums.videoredo.com/
    and didn't see anything that looked exactly like your problem,
    but it was more of a quick scan so you could still find an answer
    there. You could post your problem there and have a good
    chance that Dan or someone else will have a better solution.

    In my opinion it would be well worth the effort to work out
    any problem, with VideoReDo or find were any conflict exists
    with your current setup. You might want to give the new
    TMPGEnc Editor a try though, even if just to see if you still
    have the problem when using that.
    www.pegasys-inc.com

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Dec 23, 2004
    #6
  7. http://www.womble.com Mpeg Video Wizard. If you have a wheel mouse it
    makes use of the wheel to scoll forward and back.
     
    Chris Phillipo, Dec 24, 2004
    #7
  8. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    My son is in the other room now fitting a junker PC I gave him with a Linux
    partition. I have shown a very low-key interest in what he's doing, as I've
    "been there, done that" and really don't have time to invest in all of the
    tinkering I know he'll have to do.

    I know my Tivo is Linux-driver (er, at least I think I remember reading that
    it is), and that's all fine and dandy, as long as I don't have to tinker to
    get it to work. I'm not opposed to "tinkering", really ... in fact, I've
    proven to be a pretty good PC "tinkerer", if not a bit more than that.

    My personal opinion of Linux is somewhat documented online. If you google
    for my real name and "Linux", you'll see some parts of my struggles with
    Linux and trying to figure out why its threading model is (or at least was)
    so dinked. After successfully working with multi-threaded, multi-process
    systems for many, many years, the Linux folks seemed to have redefined
    "threading" and suddenly their way was the way all threading was supposed to
    work. yeah, right.

    In summary, I've coded on all sorts of Unix platforms. HP, Sun, FreeBSD,
    BSD, AIX and yes, Linux. The brunt of this work was a life sciences
    application, loading gobs-of-gigobytes of DNA information into a database,
    and working with this data. The Linux of 3 years ago (when I left this
    position) did not leave me very impressed, although it was made to work.

    I'll let my son (13) set up his PC ... in fact, he's got the GUI up and it
    looks better than I remember. I've never been a big fan of MS or Windows
    (I'm an old OS/2 guy, and an older CTOS/BTOS fan), but I'm going to attempt
    to stick with Win32 software before I backpedal into the world of Linux.

    Still looking for Win32 solutions ... I believe they're out there! More in
    a different reply.

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Dec 26, 2004
    #8
  9. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    Ooops. I just tried this and apparently my name is more popular than I
    would have thought. Most of the posts I found weren't from me. In the era
    of which I spoke, I used the email address nick @ secant.com.

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Dec 26, 2004
    #9
  10. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    Ok, here's an update, albeit a somewhat lengthy one.

    I tried playing my final MPG file using several different players: Nero
    Showtime, Win MediaPlayer and VideoRedo itself. All exhibited the jerky
    video.
    I tried the quickfix option and it made no difference.
    Hmmm. As it turns out, most of my raw video originates from the same source
    .... I record almost all of it via my Media Center tuner. Yet the raw video
    plays fine with all players. Showbiz is always used to convert dvr-ms to
    mpg.

    Perhaps I'll find an existing video clip from somewhere ... I've got a ton
    off the internet.
    I will take this course, thanks.
    I'll try this editor, although the name looks familiar and I may have looked
    at it already. I've spent the past week or so going through quite a pile of
    editors, all with disappointing results. So far, VideoReDo has produced the
    "most usable" results! With the noted problem, which is still significant
    to me.

    I rediscovered Nero's Vision Express. I was exicted, long ago, at the
    prospect of using this, as it edited dvr-ms files directly w/out conversion.
    Great! Except that it constantly crashed the minute I would start to save a
    finalized video. The latest and greatest version does not crash! But it
    produced a an MPEG with the audio offset significantly from the video
    (started with an MPG original clip). Looks like a Godzilla movie!

    In fact, the couple of other editors I have tried ALL seem to offset the
    audio. (ULead VideoStudio 8 and HT Video Editor the latest tries). I went
    back and tried ShowBiz again, it comes out OK but now that I've seen "fast
    editing", it's even slower than I remembered. How painful! So, it and
    AudioReDo seem to be able to handle the audio, but I'm still hoping to
    de-jerk the video with VideoReDo.

    I'll see if I can't get any help with VideoReDo from its forums and its
    author. So far it shows the most promise.

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Dec 26, 2004
    #10
  11. Nick Knight

    Ken Maltby Guest

    One other thing; How does it look when played on a settop DVD
    player? Depending on how the interlace issues were handled, a
    jerkiness can showup on PC players that isn't there when played on
    a settop player to a normal TV.

    Luck;
    Ken
     
    Ken Maltby, Dec 27, 2004
    #11
  12. Nick Knight

    Nick Knight Guest

    Thanks, Ken, for all of the help and suggestions. It's been awhile since
    these posts, but I wanted to provide an update.

    As Ken suggested, I wrote to support at VideoReDo.com explaining my problem.
    I got a fairly quick response (a couple of hours) from "Dan" asking
    questions. He even suggested I take a small sample of the source video and
    post it to their ftp site. I posted the 20MB clip quickly, and explained
    more about my setup (Windows MCE that records TV to dvr-ms format).

    Dan again wrote back quickly, thanking me for the info and the file. He
    figured he'd look at it "tomorrow", as it was fairly late in the evening by
    this time. I was absolutely fine with this; after dealing with a couple of
    support forums for the software that came bundled with my PC and getting
    nowhere, I was already happier with this situation. And I was simply
    evaling the product!

    Dan told a bit of a fib, tho. He didn't bother waiting until "tomorrow".
    Sometime later in that same evening (10:30 PM, it appears they're also in
    the eastern USA) I got yet-another email from Dan at VideoReDo.

    He had looked at my video clip. It seems that the software that had created
    it (ShowBiz DVD, which converts my MCE-created dvr-ms files to MPG format)
    had recorded headers with an inaccurate framerate (25 fps instead of 29.97
    .... and all of my settings are correct). VideoReDo was taking this
    framerate seriously and adjusting the video to match the audio. Hence the
    periodic "herky jerky" video.

    He pointed me to DVDPatch. I downloaded this, let it fix my source file
    framerate, did a quick edit with VideoReDo, and the final video came out
    perfectly! It's now on DVD and part of my collection.

    First, this is the kind of support and company pride you often see in
    shareware (er, trialware, whatever is the PC term nowadays). Not all
    shareware, but you see enough of this type of support that, well, always
    pleases the user. Freeware products are often like this, too. It's more
    about the product than "just money".

    Now, to VideoReDo itself. After struggling with Showbiz for over a year to
    edit my converted dvd-ms files, this tools is like striking gold! I've
    edited about a dozen videos I had in my backlog, as it would take so
    frigging long to edit them in Showbiz I could never keep up. That is, if
    the video was even short enough for Showbiz to handle; a 2 hour movie seemed
    to be a heavy load for it, and anything more? Forget about it!

    VideoReDo is a treat. Load the video ... this is quick. Navigation to any
    spot in the clip, easy. Fine tuning to the exact frame? Very nice ... I
    can scroll fast with one slider, scroll much more slowly with a second
    slider, then break down to using arrow keys to tune it to the right frame.
    Cool! And fast. And easy.

    Unfortunately, I still apparently need ShowBiz to convert from dvr-ms format
    to mpg. However, I heard that support for this format is probably in
    VideoReDo's near-term future. Cha ching!

    I found what I was asking for, thanks to Ken and a few others who chimed in
    about VideoReDo. I tried some of the other suggestions, but they either
    didn't work as easily as I wanted, or I couldn't figure them out at all. I
    even went back and retried all editors again, once my framerates were
    adjusted. Nothing worked as well for me as VideoReDo.

    I'm claiming VideoReDo as my new MPG editor ... I will register it early
    this week. And I've already turned a coworker onto the tool, too. It looks
    like he's happy with it, also.

    Thanks again for all of the help, gang!

    Nick
     
    Nick Knight, Jan 9, 2005
    #12
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