Help with Kodak Roll and sheet film pinkish coating!!

Try hypo-clear, or if you have a developed negative you can spare, soak it
in developer with occasional agitation. I'll bet that removes the pink.

A side question - do you use soft water for washing?

 

Alrighty I'm sure this is redundant but here goes and please advise!!
I'm having a terrible time clearing that pinkish halide or ? coating from
my Kodak films from 120 Roll (Tmax and Tri-X) as well as my sheet film of
the same. I'm processing in a Jobo and am using both a 5 minute presoak as
well as a long 5 minute fixing. Also a long washing still doesn't clear it
properly!! Still there in most cases and it seems TriX is the hardest to
clear (I haven't managed to clear it yet!).
Advice please!
What am I missing or doing wrong!
Sure makes Ilford films (I use both Ilford and the Yellow Giant labels) look
good in regards to processing!!
Jos. Burke

 

You didn't say what kind of fix you're using. Even in rapid fix you
should try fixing 7 - 10 minutes. I experienced the same problem and
found that simply fixing longer would remove the pink.

glenn booth

 

To continue I also use Perma Wash after the fact and my water here in KY is
rather hard ( I don't soften)---It's pumped straight out of the Ohio River,
critters and all, belly-up and living!! Adds to the flavor as well as the
bouquet!!!! We get a little something extra in every glass!!
J Burke

 

Two suggestions: 1)try using either distilled or softened water (add
about 1/2 tsp. of Calgon crystals to your water), and 2)try an
extra-strength mixture of Perma-Wash and give it about double the
recommended time in the Perma Wash.

Three. . .three suggestions (and a fanatical obedience to the Pope),
oops, sorry, wrong sketch. Anyway, check the pH of your processes. The
pink comes out better at higher pH. So you might want to avoid using
hardener in your fixer and/or switch to an alkaline fixer. Also, make
sure your developer is at least pH 9.

 

Normal fixing times without hardener.

 

No mention of type of fixer, are you using Rapid Fix and at what dilution?
Are you using it one shot or reusing your fixer. Will the film clear if you
refix in fresh fixer?

 

Certain impurities may cause precipitation of the silver-thiosulfate
complex in the emulsion. Sodium and ammonium silver-thiosulfate
complexes are soluble and wash out. That pink hue is a sign
of incomplete wash out.

I've very hard water so use only distilled water.
Dan

 

Hard water, if it is largely iron, is a very good for archival washing. Pure
water hardly washes at all. Wash in hard, rinse and photo-flow in pure and
be happy.

 

The OP's water must not be "largely iron" He ends up with
pinkish emulsions. I'll see if my local supermarket has hard
water by the gallon. Dan

 

minute (in rapid fix FF2), and washed it in PhotoFlo. The pink coating was
gone

 

The pink comes out much more easily if the hypo-clear and final wash are
done at 75 degrees. 'Pink Problems' are normally a winter affair.

 

You suggest the hole developping process must take place at 75 degrees? Or
do you mean the washing step? In this last case wont difference between bath
temperatures harm the film?

 

Watch out about 75 degree wash may reticulate film. (Tmax is a thinner
emulsion than tri-x and will take a greater temperture change but still
be carefull) Kodak changed Tmax from other films in that the emulsion
color is an additive to the base side of the negative to check for
total film fix. Lengthen your fix time to 10 mins, wash, hypo, wash
photo flo. This will take care of it. I to had this problem when tmax
first came out and change all film fixing to 10 mins to compensate for
it.

 

Hypo clear and wash. Though you can do the whole shebang at 75. I
I keep the thermostat at 64 in the winter and I process at room
temperature. In the summer ~75 is about average.

No

 

: Watch out about 75 degree wash may reticulate film. (Tmax is a thinner
: emulsion than tri-x and will take a greater temperture change but still
: be carefull) Kodak changed Tmax from other films in that the emulsion
: color is an additive to the base side of the negative to check for
: total film fix. Lengthen your fix time to 10 mins, wash, hypo, wash
: photo flo. This will take care of it. I to had this problem when tmax
: first came out and change all film fixing to 10 mins to compensate for
: it.

I've managed to abuse Tmax with temprature changes and have never had an
issue with reticulation. I do know that I process Tmax at 75 degrees.

--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

 

I use only enough A. Thio. concentrate as will completly clear one
unexposed roll of film. So much silver, so much fixer. Try 20ml of
concentrate in whatever solution volume needed. The greater the
volume the better. Archival results are more nearly approached.
Give constant agitation and check in dim light after four
minutes. No pink in my Pan F+ and it can be. Dan

 

Its the emulsion that reticulates. T-Max emulsions are
very hard. They are similar to the emulsions of color films
which will withstand 100F processing. Some other films are
not so hardended. Tri-X, at least befor production was
moved, was easier to reticulate than most other films but it
still took an effort. The current stuff may be harder.

 

I've read through this rather long thread and still am
not sure of what fixer you are using. Rapid fixer at film
strength should fix out Tri-X and T-Max in five minutes
unless its very exhausted. Make sure you agitate the film
frequently while its fixing.
The easiest way to test the fixer is to fix out a scrap
of undeveloped film. Soak the film in water for 2 or 3
minutes to swell the gelatin and then fix it in a sample of
the fixing bath. In film strength rapid fixer it should
become visually clear in about 2 minutes. It should be fixed
for 2 to 3 times the clearing time. If the clearing time is
excessive replace the fixer. The reason for the presoak is
that wet film fixes at a different rate from dry film.
While rapid fixer has a much greater capacity than sodium
thiosulfate fixer I still suggest the use of two successive
fixing baths. This extends the life of the fixer
considerably and insures complete fixing. Note that there
are still insoluble halide or reaction products in the
emulsion even after it have become visually clear, extending
the fixing time by a factor of 2 to 3 times insures that
this material has been reacted into a water soluble form
which will come out in the fixer or wash.
There are two things that result in a color stain on the
film: one is unfixed halide, the other is residual
sensitizing dye. They look a bit different. Unfixed halide
is turbid, the dye is not. Turbidity (cloudiness) requires
refixing in fresh fixer to get rid of. The sensitizing dye
in T-Max (and maybe Tri-X also) is a sort of pinkish violet
but it is clear. This dye seems to be very persistent and
bonds to something in the emulsion. While Kodak suggests its
from inadequate fixing it seem to persist even when fixing
is carried out well beyond the point of of normal fixing
times. The dye can be gotten rid of by a normal treatment in
a sulfite wash aid such as Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent. KHCA
has several properties that break the chemical bond between
fixer, alum hardener, fixer reaction products, and the
residual dye with the gelatin of the emulsion and the image
silver. To some extent it will compensate for partially
exhausted fixer. With T-Max films the sensitizing dye comes
completely out in a normal 2 to 3 minute treatment in the
wash aid.
I know from Kodak's published research paper that KHCA
works. I don't know about other wash aides. Kodak's is
designed to produce minimum swelling of the emulsion and to
adjust the pH to a point where washing is rapid but
hardening from alum hardener is not destroyed as it is by a
high pH bath in sodium carbonate or some other alkali. It
also has an ion exchange property not shared by plain alkali
baths. It is this property which is primarily for the very
great acceleration of washing.
I don't use much Tri-X but use a lot of T-Max. I get
completely clear negatives after using wash aid even when
fixing in sodium thiosulfate fixer.

Write back and let me know what you find.

 

Working strengh fixers have suggested maximum silver
content levels per unit volume of fixer. The levels for
archival purposes are low. Any fix, sodium or ammonium may
exceed those levels long before it's capacity for complexing silver is
reached. In practice A. Thio. has no more capacity
than S. Thio. That is even more true when iodide is present
as the ammonium ion's affinity for silver in the presence
of iodide is near zero. That near zero affinity is the
reason for longer fix times with iodided emulsion.
The only reason for FILM STRENGTH fixer, if I read Ilford correctly,
is the high 8 - 10 grams of silver per liter they suggest for
commercial purposes. Any one processing at or
near the much lower archival silver levels using 'film'
strength is just throwing fixer down the drain.
There are two capacities. One is the chemistry's ability
to complex silver and the other is the safe silver level per
unit volume. Save for very dilute fixers such as I use the chemistry's
capacity is not usually a matter of concern. Dan