How do you back up your work?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Dallas, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Dallas

    Dallas Guest

    Na.. no need.. cats automatically back themselves up. To retrieve the
    backup, just put a bowl of food at the back door and you'll have a new
    cat in no time.
    Dallas, Mar 11, 2012
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  2. Dallas

    Dallas Guest

    Until someone steals your car. :- )

    But, seriously, I do have data on my drive that I wouldn't want to be
    in a criminal's hands.
    Dallas, Mar 11, 2012
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  3. Dallas

    Savageduck Guest

    Strange, I have had criminals in hand who I wouldn't want on my drive.
    Savageduck, Mar 11, 2012
  4. Dallas

    PeterN Guest

    And I've met criminals who;
    wouldn't want to be on your drive; and/or
    wouldn't want you to see the data on their drive.
    PeterN, Mar 11, 2012
  5. Per Dallas:
    This thread is getting better and better... -)
    (PeteCresswell), Mar 11, 2012
  6. Dallas

    Burt Johnson Guest

    Burt Johnson, Mar 11, 2012
  7. Per Burt Johnson:

    That made a lot of sense - and now I'm thinking maybe a second
    NAS box in a neighbor's garage or closet... or even at one of the
    sites I serve - where I have a PC anyhow...

    But I can't figure out how CrashPlan differs from using a file
    copy utility like SecondCopy that can copy to an FTP destination.

    Can anybody elucidate?
    (PeteCresswell), Mar 11, 2012
  8. Dallas

    Alan Browne Guest

    You should write a book.
    Alan Browne, Mar 11, 2012
  9. Dallas

    Joel Guest

    A stolen hard drive? You can't seem to enjoy a normal life, can you?
    Joel, Mar 11, 2012
  10. Really surprised this kind of thing isn't a FAQ as it's all a solved problem
    but there you go. Might be worth tacking on VPN for site to site back ups
    and full disc encryption.

    I've found disc drive temperature tends to be around 10 degrees Celsius
    above ambient temperature. Around 25C is good with reliability dropping
    slowly off as you approach 40C. Anything approaching 50C is trouble.

    An alternative to RAR archives is PAR recovery files developed for
    transferring files over usenet. The advantage is PAR can work with original
    files & directory structures.
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Mar 12, 2012
  11. Your narrative cropping is a little tight. Did she rescue the cat?
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Mar 12, 2012
  12. Definitely think this is the way to go for a lot of people and even
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Mar 12, 2012
  13. Dallas

    Burt Johnson Guest

    First, CrashPlan does differential, automated backups. That is, you
    back up 2TB of data (as I do) and then change 50GB of it (which often
    happens on a daily basis for me). CP will upload that 50GB and I then
    have a full backup again.

    Second, CP is smart about disk copies. Do you have the same file in
    more than one location? CP figures that out and only uploads one copy,
    and a pointer to where it should go in those other places.

    Perhaps most important, CrashPlan acts like a remote TimeMachine, giving
    you historic copies as well as current ones. Need to recover a file as
    it stood last December? No FTP copy will handle that, but CP will.

    Of course, I have a TimeMachine local copy, and when I need to go back
    in time, that is my first line of defense. However, if the TM disk does
    not have what I need, or the house burned down / was burglarized, I fo
    to the CrashPlan backup.
    Burt Johnson, Mar 13, 2012
  14. Dallas

    Burt Johnson Guest

    If someone breaks into your house and steals your compter, you can
    assume they will take every high tech device in the same room --
    including your backup disk.

    #1 - If you don't have an offsite backup, that means you are hosed and
    have just lost everything.

    #2 - The criminal can potentially get your bank info. Of course, if
    they have the computer already, the extra disk copy is probably not the
    weakest link...

    #3 - But if they steal the disk (only) from a car, and the disk is not
    strongly password protected, you probably have bank info, etc there.
    Not sure I would want a criminal to have that info...

    Personally I use CrashPlan, which prevents lots of these problems. See
    my response to the orig post for more info there.
    Burt Johnson, Mar 13, 2012
  15. I back up new files such as photos or MP3s I get
    immediately on two different brands of DVD-ROMs,
    one Taiyo Yuden. I do the same to the DNA files I process
    for people.

    I back up (clone) entire hard disks twice a year and keep three
    back ones, one in my office, one at home, and one in
    a storage room at work. For this I use Ghost 11 on
    a DVD-ROM; this makes bootable disks. I normally
    store the old disk and put the clone in my computer ...
    the Ghost process partially defragments the disk.

    I have actually had one instance where the main disk died
    and the first backup was partially unreadable so I
    had to boot the second backup and restore files from
    the CD-ROM backups (this happened before DVD-ROMS).

    I'm paranoid about this, and for good reason ... I've seen
    people who had major disasters.

    Doug McDonald
    Doug McDonald, Mar 13, 2012
  16. You can always get another photograph archive, just download
    random pix via Google and Wikipedia. But each cat is different
    from any other cat and cannot be replaced like any random photograp
    archive can.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 13, 2012
  17. Something like outside -40 to +70°C?
    HDDs don't like shock when operating, condensing and other wetness
    and tons of spinup-spindown actions, especially when they have
    to use the rotational energy as power source to finish writing
    a block and store the heads in a power-out emergency.
    used nowhere. HDDs of this millennium have several levels of ECC
    data, otherwise they wouldn't be able to use such dense magnetic
    patterns with any sort of reliability. Same with CDs, even more
    so with CDs in data format, same with DVDs, same with BlueRay,
    same with Flash memory of any kind, same with magnetic tape.
    Even caches in CPUs have ECC. Only main RAM doesn't have ECC
    usually (because that would increase the cost by 1/8th). In the
    good olden times RAM each 8 byte hat a parity bit (which is more
    than enough to make ECC out of them in larger blocks) ...
    1 out of 2^16 (65,536) is actually pretty good in detecting
    data errors if done well.

    These are used to detect malicious changes by intelligent, whily
    opponents, not data corruption (which is random and doesn't try
    to hide). Completely different story. Even going in that
    direction shows you're merely dropping buzzwords without
    understanding what you are saying.

    Actually, ZIP is a compression format.

    All data channels you'd use for transmission of data are very low
    error systems (by design, by checksums and resends, by enough
    ECC), same as the storage systems you'd use. In practical use
    only broken systems would be any other very low error rate systems.

    Again you prove you don't see the woods, barking up the
    (wrong) tree.
    Again, CD and DVD were designed to be pressed and counter typical
    usage damage (scratches etc.), for mass media use. The error
    rate isn't alarmingly high: The output is completely correct
    for almost everything. You should measure how often your HDD
    does error correction, especially when it's a partial response
    maximum likelyhood system!

    Anyway (you got that partially right) a corrupted sector of 1/75th
    second can be faded out without being noticeable in audio CDs.
    With video data there's immediately visible artifacts.
    Again a case of too little information and too much buzzwords.
    For CDs and DVDs and BlueRays, the correct solution is dvdisaster,
    which works more intelligent than PAR, since these media can
    fail partially. (2 partially failed media kill your PAR, but
    can usually be repaired by dvdisaster.)

    For HDDs, partial failure is rare, so PARs saved to the same
    HDD are useless. You either live with HDDs being failable and
    the chance that both your computer and the backup HDDs failing
    simultaneously being a really low chance, or you use RAID (or
    similar data spreading) so you can stand losing n (n usually
    being 1 or 2) drives out of every set of m backup disks.

    You need a BIOS that does scrubbing. The only OS part that's
    "needed" if at all is alerting you to the fact if a certain
    memory region begins failing. Actually memtest86+ does a
    good job detecting that.
    It's much more likely that you fail because you never checked your
    backup worked. It's much more likely you backed up corrupted data
    because your hard drive/controller/cable/... corrupted the data.
    'common' as in 'happens to 100 people in the world per
    year'. Many more get murdered. Many more back up corrupted
    data due to other reasons than RAM being bad.

    99.99% of corrupted data being backed up is because the data
    is *already* corrupted on your computer.
    I've seen it happen. UPS[1], several hard drives[2],
    RAM[3][4], several graphics cards[5], ethernet port on
    mainboard[6], probably soundcard on mainboard[7],
    USB-miniUSB-cable[8], Ethernet cable[9] ...

    Why should they? Most such errors are clearly visible:
    - a corrupted JPEG caused by some glitch or persistent error is
    clearly visibly broken
    - a corrupted program crashes
    - malfunctioning RAM causes clearly visible reliability problems
    (like corrupted JPEG displays and program crashes)
    - broken ethernet ports or cables cause no data transferred
    - no sound is clearly audible
    - freezing HDs or graphics cards etc. cause computer lock ups
    and once you get such problems it's time to investigate.

    Monitors are *known* to drift away from calibration and near
    impossible to catch with the blank eye (even when using comparison
    prints), *but* the drift causes, ah, imperfect results which can
    be clearly noticable when it's too late and lots of work needs
    to be redone.

    Clearly, monitors need to be hardware checked. Just like
    HDDs are (S.M.A.R.T.).

    If you suffer from paranoia, get treatment.


    [1] testing it's worn-out batteries automatically and not being
    able to switch back to main power in time to prevent a
    computer crash.
    [2] no data loss, though, though funny things like the firmware
    crashing and freezing the computer (as it waited infinitely
    for necessary pieces of data or code) after several weeks,
    later days and finally refusing to start up every time. Yes,
    I usually run my computers 24/7/365.25
    [3] that was a known production error in a PDA (pre-flash
    memory times): the refresh cycles were not frequent enough
    or something. I got it repaired out of warranty for free.
    [4] a pair of RAM sticks wouldn't run reliably at full bus speed
    when both were inserted. Since that was a new computer anyway,
    memtest86 (no '+' back then) caught the error reliably.
    Replaced them a few times (for free, of course), until the
    dealer gave up and I got 2 from the same production run.
    Which worked fine for the lifetime of the computer.
    [5] For unknown reasons started to overheat, more prominently
    when asked to do 3D graphics. Directing additional air
    at them helped, replacing them cured the computer lock ups
    (partial, i.e. graphic subsystem only and full lockups, btw.)
    The last one was this year.
    [6] just went and died. Windows machine, i.e. some games only
    and rarely running, usually without network. No idea when
    it died. I had a USB-Ethernet converter for my XOs which for
    now lives on that machine. Running Linux I could download
    the Windows driver for that on said machine. (Linux had
    everything on board.)
    [7] Untested, but sound sometime back failed. Didn't add a
    soundcard board to test the theory yet. Since it's for work
    and photoediting sound's a low priority ...
    [8] the ssh-via-USB connection to my ebook reader (openinkpot)
    failed after several seconds, every time. Switching the USB
    cable solved the problem. Would never have thought it could
    be the USB cable, so it needed a hint to change it ...
    [9] Pings were going out, but not coming in. Cable used to work
    previously, it was probably experiencing shear forces at some
    point which partially broke it.
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 14, 2012
  18. You're mixing up archival and backup again.

    Archival: yes, you might worry about that.
    Backup: you really think the HDD-interface of your backups (which
    should by definition be *recent*) will become obsolete within
    days or *shudder* months?

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 14, 2012
  19. Does Carbonite encrypt data on your system, or can Carbonite (and
    everyone breaking in there, every court's subpoena, etc.) read
    your data?

    Additionally, Carbonite doesn't work with my OS.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 14, 2012
  20. Dallas

    tony cooper Guest

    Follow-up: The lady died yesterday.
    tony cooper, Mar 14, 2012
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