How do you back up your work?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Dallas, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Dallas

    Mark F Guest

    This product can be completely removed at our option without prior
    notice. We can remove your ability to access your data from the
    cloud, which was the only reason that you installed the product in the
    first place, but we retain the right to keep access to the data for
    Mark F, Mar 27, 2012
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  2. OK, then it's more usual with games than with productive
    So you don't need a disk image or install DVD for them?

    There are better systems, for example "keep everything in the
    program's directory" system. Or the "/etc/$PROGRAM" model,
    which with "$PROGRAM.d" files allows even secondary programs to
    add configuration to the primary program, without having to be
    clever with the original configuration.[1]

    Additionally, both models are trivially seen and changed with
    your usually file system tools. With clear text config, it's
    easy to see what they're doing and there's ample space for long
    comments on the options and commented out options, too, so the
    file is self-documenting and easy to change with any text editor.

    Contrast and compare the registry, where you need special tools,
    litte if any contained documentation and where real life has
    proven cleaning up the registry is anything but trivial.

    Large fire (due to earthquake). The local bank's vault
    burned/was flooded/crushed by rubble. :)

    Gateway? Dell?

    No, you have to shop for that, talk to the local small
    computer store or know your sources.
    I doubt a proper driver can install a physical PATA connector.
    Well, yes, Windows should never be exposed to the open
    internet. That was one of the points.
    Is there a digital signature, and is it checked automatically?
    If I'm paranoid, I won't use Windows. :)

    Yep. Very, very true.
    And that's why local backups are also valuable.
    So have I, but then I don't use Windows outside the games box,
    preferring a real OS.


    [1] A program might add itself to the task scheduler, add
    configuration to the event monitor checker and so on.
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 28, 2012
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  3. Dallas

    Pete A Guest

    Sorry for the delay in replying.

    I was talking about the many pressed and user-recorded CDs that
    massively exceed 220 C1 errors/s (by massively, I mean many thousands
    of C1 errors/s) and bursts of C2 errors that are uncorrectable leading
    to clearly audible distortion.
    Those pressed CDs caused the problem from the first day I bought them,
    which was within a month of each one being released. All I was aware of
    at the time was considerable audio distortion. I initially assumed it
    was caused by terrible recording quality. One was so bad I took it back
    to the shop: none of the players in the shop could play it at all.

    The audio quality of the CDs have indeed got worse over time even
    though the quality of the players has improved so I guess the discs
    have deteriorated with time.
    Very true.
    Yep (I like your wording of that).
    Luckily, I avoided installing a rootkit.

    It would be much less useful than a length of string and two tin cans.

    That's an interesting point. My ISP offers free storage space if I
    install the software, which just seems to be a fancy wrapper to an FTP
    client. AFAIK it gives no more reliable data transmission than TCP
    Guilty as charged! Most applications don't/cannot report TCP errors so
    I have no data. Am I alone in finding that an application such as RAR
    needs to use its redundancy files far more frequently than one would be
    comfortable with?

    As above, over the years I've experienced far too many data errors over FTP.
    I used to know a fair bit about this, but I've forgotten most of it. My
    brain error rate is rapidly increasing at it gets towards the end :-(

    CD/DVD has the luxury of changing RPM to account for this problem. HDD
    manufacturers have gone a long way to overcome it, but read/write speed
    still deteriorates from beginning to end of the disc.
    Yep, but there will always be an optimal speed range for minimum error rate.

    I don't think that for one moment. I should've said "people" instead of "you".
    I've chosen to not let it bother me any more. If I personally lose
    "important" data I'll get over it and generate some more after the
    My mind often wanderers off into hyperspace instead of staying focused.
    As above.
    Thank you for your detailed reply, Wolfgang.

    I learn from being wrong and absolutely nothing from being right. I
    apologize for directing my animosity towards you. Rather than
    attempting to explain why I do this sometimes, I feel it would be far
    better for me to address my problem rather than to make excuses for it.

    Pete A, Mar 28, 2012
  4. "many"? As in several hundred or thousand all in all?
    OK, I have not yet encountered such a problem with pressed disks
    (though I've quite often seen problems with burned CDs and DVDs),
    that may skew my oppinion.

    OK, you got a few bad results from the pressing.
    I don't think that's much more than the usual problem with
    mass productions: some lemons are always found.

    All disks deteriorate over time.

    Thanks :)

    Luckily, the only use for Windows is playing games.
    (OK, that's true for me, not for everyone.)
    And then my music taste is rather far from mainstream.

    Well, you _could_ use it as a mirror for signalling over much
    longer distances --- if the sun shines.

    But for IP connections a very low error rate is necessary.
    One would expect an error rate of 2^25-2^30 or better. With 16
    bit checksums, the undetected error rate would be 2^41 at worst.

    Additionally a bad connection would immediately show up, as
    practically *all* packets that are corrupted will show up as
    broken. (There's no intelligence to corrupt the packets in a way
    that they seem OK.) This high error rate will ring alarm bells.

    I'm not using RAR. But I know something about burned CDs and
    DVDs. That's why I talk about dvdisaster
    whenever the talk comes to these disks as storage.

    Hmmm. In that case I'd look into your home network and into your
    connection to the provider. Maybe even the mainboard-HD-cable.

    Upgrade to MS Brain 1 SP 3.

    Or switch to GNU Encephalon: more features, less bugs, free ---
    and your thoughts are actually yours again.

    But the beginning is at the outer rim ... and thus the
    sectors pass fastest under the heads.

    True. So "increasing the speed increases the error rate"
    isn't the whole story, at least.

    I see.

    Don't you need your heart replaced to do that and survive?[1]

    Ignore the problem?
    OK, that is one solution, if it's not really a problem.

    You could use a RAID (allowing for one or even 2 failed disks in
    the stack) with constant checking of the data (e.g. via more
    ECC data embedded in the data stream by the RAID driver) and
    reconstruct and repair if an error is detected.

    That's an external solution.

    Alternatively you could say "HDD manufacturers should
    further decrease the undetectable error rate".

    I am humbled. Of course I accept your apology, please do accept
    mine --- I tend to formulate too harsh and tend to be much closer
    to personal attacks than I should.


    [1] Superluminal, Vonda N. McIntyre
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 29, 2012
  5. I'm not familiar with DVD (have a suspicion that it does start at the
    outside) but CD definitley starts at the inside. That's why small form-
    factor CDs (CD singles) work.

    Andrew Reilly, Mar 30, 2012
  6. Ah, brain fart on my part. I was talking about HDDs, not
    CD/DVD/BlueRay. You're certainly right for CDs, and I think
    it's the same for DVDs (at least that's what the reflection
    change in partially written DVDs shows).

    OTOH, if there's corrosion going on in burned/burnable DVDs, that
    should start from the outside (where the carrier goes straight
    to the end), not from the inside (where there's a lot of plastic
    towards the hole.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Mar 30, 2012
  7. Probably; I have little experience with games, especially expensive
    No, just the install files and product keys.
    That's where Windows started out; the moved away from that because of
    massive problems.

    Or at least so they said; I tend to agree with you that it's a better

    However, the problems involved shared DLLs, which is somewhat a hard
    I tend to agree, but of course most people don't *have* a text editor
    they know how to use.
    But you can easily find everything referencing a particular DLL.
    Yes. My "favorite" example (I'm actually very sad it happened, but
    it's a great example) was Jacques Loewe's photographs from the Kennedy
    White House. He had very sensibly stored them in a bank safe-deposit
    vault, since they were clearly valuable. Unfortunately, that bank vault
    was under the World Trade Center.

    You certainly can lose access to things.

    My encrypted password database lives in my Dropbox; and the way dropbox
    works, there's a very recent copy of it on at least 4 computers in two
    cities, plus my phone. Plus, outside of Dropbox, my backup disks. Plus
    the thumb drive I carry in my pocket (less recent; but it contains the
    most important passwords at least in their current forms).

    I'd like to have a copy of my data backed up in cloud storage as well,
    but it's currently too expensive and too slow (I've got an ADSL line, 7
    megabits in but slightly less than 1 out). Friends living within a mile
    of me got the option of up to 100 megabit fiber internet to their
    houses, but that's not available on my street (it's a special case, a
    company doing wireless throughout the city was installing a new fiber
    I've never bought a computer from Dell or Gateway, they have all come
    from General Nanosystems (or, formerly, Tran Micro) in the last couple
    of decades. But if for some reason I couldn't avoid Dell, it's
    trivially easy to overwrite the existing installation, throw out an
    included hard drive, or whatever. Those things are not problems,
    they're merely expenses.
    I'm not running anything that antiquated; and if I were, I'd take the
    opportunity to correct it if I was doing a complete replacement.
    No idea. I've never had a problem, and there isn't any alternative.
    Most security professionals I know use Windows.
    We really need a better way to let programs do occasional checks for
    updates and such, without adding infinite background tasks.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Mar 30, 2012
  8. HDDs no longer have the same number of sectors per track; the linear
    bit-density is now constant. So the inner tracks bring the same sector
    around again faster, but the outer tracks make more sectors accessible
    without moving the access arm.
    In my case -- ZFS keeps its own, large, checksums on every filesystem
    block (data and metadata). I check each week to see if there are
    errors. If there are, it can recover the data from the other drive
    (2-way mirror). If it can't, it can notify me and I can try to recover
    it from an old snapshot, or from one of the backups (which also include
    old snapshots).

    Errors at the level that doesn't catch, I just lose the data. I hate
    that, in theory (never happened). Well, for some photos I could try to
    recover from CDS and DVDs I burned, and I should burn some for more
    recent work.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Mar 30, 2012
  9. Dallas

    Alan Browne Guest

    DVD first layer starts at the inner rim and works outward - the disk
    spins quickly.

    As the head moves outward, the disk speed reduces. Data density on the
    disk is constant and speed change keeps data rate constant.

    The 2nd layer begins at the outer edge and moves inward - disk speed
    increases again. You usually see a brief ( < 1 s) pause during the
    layer switch. Good mastering will hide that by putting the switch at a
    scene change, but even then it's often perceptible.

    I've often thought that when the "feature" is first run the reader
    should go read the first few seconds of the 2nd layer start and store it
    in RAM such that the layer switch event can be made imperceptible while
    the optics re-focus.
    Alan Browne, Mar 30, 2012
  10. I do all my editing on files stored on my actual workstation's HDD. Since I use a Mac all I need to do is backup my home directory and I'm sure all my stuff is being backed up. No more rogue settings or files somewhere elselike with Windows. Worst case I reinstall the operating system, install my software again and restore my home directory. Backing up the entire operating system would be useful but I'm not that concerned about it. I know Ican get the OS back if I need to.

    Now how do I back it up? I have an apple script that runs every Sunday night (at like 2AM) that remounts my filer if it has gone idle and has disconnected due to power saving then rsync's my home directory to my NAS filer. The NAS filer is a D-Link DNS-321 that's a few years old. It's setup with two 1TB disks in RAID 1. If one dies I just pop the disk out and put in a new one. The RAID rebuilds. RAID 1 is mirroring (a copy of every bit is on both disks).

    I haven't gone as far as making a copy and storing it offsite yet but I've ben thinking about it. All I'd need to do is copy the contents of this 1TBRAID 1 array to a 1TB disk and send it somewhere safe.

    Pretty simple setup that I think is effective.
    landonstewart, Mar 31, 2012
  11. Dallas

    Pete A Guest

    Thank you very much for saying that, Wolfgang.

    I've decided to stop interacting with and the
    newsgroups because I need to put my very limited energy into some new
    and exciting mini projects/opportunities that have been presented to me
    (most of them are not related to photography).

    I do not wish to lose contact with you because you have helped me
    enormously to become a better person and to gain a better quality of
    life. If you ever feel like sending me an email, just remove the
    "nospam" and the following dot from my email address.

    Best regards,

    Pete A, Apr 3, 2012
  12. Maybe they didn't know how to do it right. Wouldn't be a first
    for MS.
    Oh, well, they also said (and error messaged) that only
    MS-DOS would work with it's early Windows 3.x. That wasn't
    the truth, of course.
    Shared libraries are nothing new, and available in other systems
    as well. Of course, there one can upgrade a library that's in use
    (if in doubt, the filespace is not released even if the name is
    gone, as long as there are filehandles on the old library) and most
    upgrades are downward compatible (unless a major change happens).
    (Note: a reboot is not needed! At most a restart of the daemon
    is needed, if the daemon would otherwise continue to access an
    old library with a security hole.)

    MS is supposed to be a company with tons of intelligent people,
    they should be able to lick the DLL problem all by themselves.

    Notepad. Terrible, but it's there.

    And that helps in which way? Is there an automatic deinstaller
    for unneeded DLLs?

    Other systems know what packages are installed on the systems,
    their requirements, etc. and can handle all that stuff and all
    upgrades (of many thousands of packages) automatically.

    So all it needs is a delete order, by mistake or code error,
    and your password database on Dropbox is gone.
    Yep, they're trying to get 4800 fibre trunk subscribers here ---
    they're not going to get more than 2000 (closing in a couple days).

    They're not even getting close to where I live. I might have
    subscribed, even though we have over a year minimum runtime on the
    DSL contract. And yes, I want more upload, download's good enough.

    Well, if it's merely expenses, I could buy Microsoft (or
    Google) and take a workstation or two and throw the rest of
    the company away. ;->

    A friend of mine just (2 days ago) upgraded his computer.
    The floppy drive and the DVD burner and DVD reader no longer fit
    to the motherboard.

    A clone drive might well be a PATA drive. Or a SATA drive when
    SATA's gonna be phased out for whatever comes next.

    Well, the thing is that if a blackhat poisons a DNS cache and
    gives it wrong information re: Microsofts update domain names (so
    the IP points to a computer of the blackhats choice and delivers
    .... bad updates, that would cause a lot of computers to try to
    get the bad updates.

    If they are digitally signed and checked for that, the bad update
    doesn't get applied ...

    But of course there *is* an alternative; it's called a Red Hat
    install CD[1]. Or an Ubuntu live CD. Or even a Mac + OS X.

    Most photographers use point&shoot cameras, too.

    Look at the system Debian (and Ubuntu, and a couple others) use:
    one system to resolve dependencies, clean out what no longer is
    needed, check for updates and apply it, extensible (just add the
    info where the repository is), several interfaces, including GUI,
    fully commandline capable, fully scriptable, triggered (if wanted)
    by cron (usually a very flexible "task scheduler"), ..., backed
    by known critical bug warning, etc.

    One single process that's occasionally run (no new background
    task), and does as much or as little as you want.

    All it needs is MS adapting such a thing and telling the software
    makers "this sort of URL with that sort of directories and
    summary files".


    [1] The 4 'R's of Windows:
    Red Hat
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 4, 2012
  13. Not exactly. If it's an error by me, I can recover it (Dropbox keeps
    old versions). If it's a code error, I may or may not be able to
    recover it from them depending on the details of the code error.

    And my laptop is mostly powered down, so I can probbly recover the copy

    Otherwise, I have to fall back on the backup copies (I bring a copy to
    my fileserver regularly).
    Maybe I'll have to move out to one of the rural towns that's getting
    massinve bradband upgrades!
    Yes, you could.

    Different order of magnitude problem, though.

    The OS only adds $50-100 to the workstation price, last I checked
    (buying the OS separately is more than that). So that's the size of the
    maximum expense. And as I say, I've found it easy to buy systems
    without OS when I wanted them.
    Could be -- but for this very reason, you should choose your clone drive
    to be easy to use in the event it's needed.
    Sure, that's better. It just hasn't happened anywhere I've heard of yet,
    so it's not a high priority to me to protect against it.

    Note that I'm not at all sure Microsoft *doesn't* use such digital
    signatures; I just don't know offhand that they do.
    "The package said 'requires windows 95 or better'. So I installed
    But most professional photographers do not use them for their main

    (And I did mean *computer* security professionals, not the broader
    Sure, I've used yum and apt-get, and pkg-add over on Solaris. Oh, and
    David Dyer-Bennet, Apr 12, 2012
  14. Unless you also purge the old versions.
    Oops, it just fell down and is broken.

    Well ... :)

    correction, that should read 2800
    Hmmm, we recently got new cabling in the house, all paid for by
    an phone/TV/internet provider. Includes analog and basic (ad paid
    and tax paid --- same as analog) TV. (The hook? The house has to
    stay with them for 7 or so years.) Since the cable connection's
    there, 150 MBit down and 5 MBit up (and no cap) for 35 EUR/month
    (which is less than what I used to pay for 2 MBit). However,
    as we don't have 1000Mbit-Ethernet, 100MBit/s is fine and will
    save 10 EUR/month.

    Still, the fibre trunk would have been able for 200MBit down
    (not that I need that) and a whopping 100 MBit up --- which would
    really play nice with Online Backups.

    I don't want to pay the Microsoft tax, when they're working
    against me and my wishes. Should the US have paid appeasement
    money in the billions to the USSR during the cold war, instead
    of letting them know that the US might not win --- but the USSR
    surely wouldn't either, if they pulled a fast one?

    I choose to be able to download the OS and almost all applications
    from the Debian mirrors. That's a very distributed and resilient

    They might --- to fight "piracy". Just in case the Somalians
    capture a freighter full of MS DVDs.

    Indeed. I switched to Linux before 95 was born.

    So shold security professionals.
    Of course, if "use" implies hacking into, breaking the system's
    security or finding the latest holes, that's another matter.
    And if "use" implies trying to harden the darn thing ("It's
    possible to make Windows secure, in much the same way as it's
    possible to make a bullet-proof vest out of cheese--you just need
    an awful lot of cheese and the end result doesn't smell good.
    --Jim"), well, they're prostituting themselves, so they
    better get well paid ... but they have my sympathies.

    It's a very restful thing that firewalls, packet inspectors,
    security loggers, intrusion detection systems and their ilk
    are usually not run on Windows.
    That was what I assumed.

    And MS doesn't manage.
    Yep, CPAN is fun --- if the author knew about "use strict" and
    "use warnings". Some don't. Then sometimes you have to reinvent
    the wheel.
    So tell me again why they're rich and have the resources?

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 16, 2012
  15. I can remove the SSD drive and access it on some random other computer
    using a USB dongle and booting from a Linux Live CD. SSD drives have
    pretty high G-force tolerance!

    This is kind of a fun game, actually.
    I should automate that process, though.

    (Just brought a new backup to work today to swap for the old off-site copy.)
    I didn't wire for gigabit copper ethernet in 1995 when we bought this
    house :). But I do have a gigabit switch on the shelf with my
    fileserver and desktop machine, so those two communicate very fast, and
    my laptop does when I plug it in down there.
    Yes, it certainly would. Well, I've known my country is a bit backwards
    on broadband and especially fiber. And poorer neighborhoods in a city
    are especially bad.
    I don't either, and in practice I've only paid for Microsoft OSs that
    I've actually used (and I don't feel like I should complain about
    that). I'm just pointing out that even if, because of locality or
    urgency or changing policies or something, you can't avoid the Microsoft
    OS, that's a philosophical issue and an expense rather than a real
    show-stopping problem.
    Yes, that's a pretty decently reliable source on the scale of these
    Their security work has a large reactive component, but when they were
    setting up the auto-update scheme, it must have been blazingly obvious
    that having it compromised would be the worst PR disaster imaginable, so
    I kind of hope they took good precautions.
    I had my first Linux install whenever kernel 0.99pl13 was current, as I
    remember it. But it's never been able to replace my desktop system --
    while the Gimp is capable, it doesn't support what I need nearly as well
    as Photoshop (for restoration and fine printing). I *can* run Bibble
    Pro on Linux, and in fact have when my (previous work) work laptop was
    running linux (saved me carrying two laptops on trips).
    If you're writing a book on the topic, your publisher is going to want a
    DOC file, and may well send it back annotated, too; for example. It's
    just where the world is.
    Partly because they aren't actually preparing a full distribution in the
    Linux sense; they only provide the OS, and a few application packages.
    Sure, there's essentially no curation of the collection; I was thinking
    of the dependency handling and automatic installation, as being related
    to the binary systems you had brought up. (Lots of useful modules there,
    Relentless focus on the bottom line?
    David Dyer-Bennet, Apr 16, 2012
  16. Ok, it didn't fall down, the computer was switched on (and the
    SSD build in) while lightning struck the power cable somewhere
    too close.
    It is.

    Ah, yes, in a couple of years we'll all need gigabit ethernet
    for our internet connection ... but we'll already be all
    wireless then. :)

    And I used to have a good static IP at home. Then I moved.
    Time for IPV6. Time for fibre to the home, or whatever
    better comes along next.

    Well, appeasement doesn't work well, as history shows. Paying
    Danegeld only compounds the problem: you'll never get rid of
    the Dane.

    Microsoft has a good spindoctoring team:
    | "No one's jumped off the top of the [Windows] building here, so I guess
    | that's a pretty good indicator that it can't be all that bad," said Rob
    | Bennett, Microsoft group product manager.

    Maybe I am easy to please. Linux or Unix with GNU-tools pleases
    me, agrees with me and I feel at home there.
    Windows doesn't please me for some reason.

    I've seen enough "this book was written ..." and "set with ..."
    to assume that at least some publishers are saner than that.

    And if that fails, there are some export tools to read DOC,
    even if one doesn't want LibreOffice.

    Imagine your life support popping up a window ...

    That's not a viable excuse for such a big company.

    Yep, that too.

    Ferengi-programming and Borg-marketing?

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 23, 2012
  17. And, when the asteroid hits Minneapolis, it'll probably get my backup at
    work, my backups in the fire safe at home, and my primary disks at home
    (both halves of the mirror pair). And me.

    My old optical disks (not fully current) down in Northfield might
    survive, depending a lot on the asteroid in question :). But nobody
    will much care if I and all my friends in Minneapolis are gone.

    Certainly having things online and powered on puts them at risk, which
    is why I use USB external drives and take them offline when I'm not
    backup up to them.

    I could have gotten a fire safe with USB pass-through, so I could back
    up to a drive in the safe -- but only a USB-powered drive, and those
    aren't big enough for a single-drive backup. If I put my own power
    pass-through in I would void the warranty, and quite likely actually
    impair the fire (and water) protection seriously; and wouldn't know for
    sure since I'm not in a position to do suitable tests. So I didn't.
    And that kind of thing is one of the clear values of conversations like
    this, highlighting areas where meaningful improvements can be made at
    affordable prices (merely a small amount of work, in that case).

    I need to replace the lost thumb drive; I used to have a recent copy in
    my pocket all the time.
    I still do (and DNS pointing at it); only the one on the router, but I
    can map ports through as needed.

    I used to have a block of 8 (meaning 6 usable) at home, and used them.
    It's a complex benefit analysys; short-term vs. long-term, just me
    vs. everybody. Can get to a "belling the cat" scenario pretty easily.
    I put Cygwin on my windows boxes, and Emacs, and Perl, and then it's

    I use Photoshop adjustment layers a lot, with layer masks. Most
    commonly curves adjustment layers, though not exclusively. It lets me
    make major or minor modifications to many aspects of my treatment of a
    photo without going back to the beginning and starting over (and without
    re-working the bits). I just can't work that way anywhere else. (This
    is only for restoration or "fine" printing; for event photos for the web
    or whatever Bibble pro does fine, I don't put that level of work into
    each and every snapshot).
    Does LibreOffice handle the annotation protocol? It can certainly
    export a perfectly good DOC file, but when it comes back marked up, how
    does that work?
    Not really THAT much worse than logging an IO error to the system log,
    I suspect that they'd be barred on anti-trust grounds from even trying
    to do it, precisely because they *are* such a big company.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Apr 23, 2012
  18. It'll be a major flood or an earthquake and gaslines rupturing
    or a hurricane. You'll all be evacuated, but you won't be able
    to grab your backups. Mostly because you're out of town and they
    won't let you in.

    It could also be a zombie outbreak. You better drop
    everything and run!

    The dust will render them --- and the drives to read them ---
    The powerful self-aware computer virus will sleep in your
    computer until you re-attach the drives ...
    And they're liable to get too many volts over the cable.
    Easy won, easy lost.

    Where is IP V6 when you need it?

    Yep, a politician (or sect leader or marketing specialist) can
    even make mass suicide sound rational and the very best of ideas.

    Microsoft has lots of all of the above.
    The cat learns how to move without the bell making any sound.
    Nothing won.

    Okay like a root canal without pain management, rather than
    life-long torture, yes.
    Photoshop doesn't necessitate Windows.
    I have no idea. A quick google turns up
    which looks like it might.

    You've just changed your breath rate.
    [Accept] [Decline] [Exit]

    And of course everything stops working till you click the
    right button. Can you say "General Failure" without air?

    I'd rather have an I/O error to the mouse or display logged in
    my breathing machine ...

    Sheesh, they could just let every programmer add their own URLs
    at their own servers. No anti-trust, no only way, just one
    convenient way to do it.

    Not a single foot, not a single inch to the Borg!

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, May 1, 2012
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