How many volumn of solution do I need to smoothly process print paperin a 12x16 tray?

How many volumn of solution do I need at least to smoothly process
print paper in a 12x16 tray? I am afraid my 2 liter bottle is not
enough to do this. Thanks.

-
woody

 

How much you really need is somewhat dependent on the tray and your
technique. I have a very smooth and flat 8x10 tray and can actually
do fine with 100 ml., although I often use a bit more. Your tray is
about 2.5 times the area. If it is smooth and flat and you are not
much more clumsy than me, you should be able to do it with 300 ml.
Even so, 500 ml should be generous. If your tray has, for example,
deep grooves as some of my larger trays do, you will need a bit more.

Why not take a sheet of plain white paper the size you will use and
try a test? Put your best estimate of the amount you will need of
water in the tray and try to keep the paper wet (in daylight so you
can see what is going on). What you need to do is keep the paper wet
and the upper side fully in contact with fresh developer by agitation.

Generally speaking the runway behind you is of no practical use in an
airplane and the liquid (more than a few molecules) above the paper is
not of much use, either. Still, you have to keep it evenly wet and
circulating (normally with intermittent agitation) for even
development.

A problem that occurs when trying to use the minimum developer is
initially wetting the paper evenly. There is a bit of surface tension
in liquids and some curling in older paper. Consequently, I deal with
this (usually) by tipping the tray and putting an edge of the paper
first in the deep end while lowering the tray so the developer flows
over the paper. Sometimes (particularly if there is a lot of curl) I
simply put it in emulsion side down for a few seconds and then turn it
over with a few seconds of continuous agitation. Either can work.

 

only 2mm deep, amazing!

Thanks a lot with your information. Now I come with confidence ready
to buy and use some 12x16 papers.

-
woody

 

Two liters should do even if it represents the diluted solution. If your
concern is the capacity of the solution, how many prints you can make with
it, then we need to know the developer in use. Fresh developer, of course.
Stop (if you use it) and fixers (2 baths) will work. It's best in a
situation with little solution to use a tray that has a flat bottom, or
minimal expressions. Take care not to let the paper get 'stuck' to the
bottom. (Stiction to be technical.)

Drifting a bit - I was lucky to have aquired several NIB 8"x10" curved
(commonly called 'canoe' shaped) stainless trays intended for processing
color paper. They are stainless in part to conduct heat, but they clean up
nicely too. They won't fit your paper unless you were speaking of
centimeters. They permit the use of very little chemistry. One 'rocks' the
tray on it's curved bottom. I use them for sheet film. One-shot chemistry.

 

Are you using your developer one-shot, or reusing it? With such small
solution volumes you run the risk of changes to the paper's characteristic
curve because the developer itself can become exhausted over the course
of developing a single sheet of paper, giving different contrast in shadows,
midtones, and highlights.

 

Perhaps I should have mentioned that point, as well. I understood he
was asking what the minimum was. I often make only a few prints and
then might only use 100 or 150 ml for an 8x10. If I will print all
day, I would use more and might add developer. Even so, 2 liters is
way more than needed for quite a few 12x16's (each eq. to 2.5 sheets
of 8x10). Kodak gives a fair summary of the capacity of their
solutions.

 

oh.. i thnk i lost the answer. i think i should ask this way:
what's the usual height of solution required for smoothly develop
16x20 papers in tray? i hope this way you experts can understand me
better.

 

There are two answers:
1. You have to use enough chemistry to make the chemical reaction work. With
most developers, this isn't an issue, but with very small quantity of
developer it is possible to exhaust the chemical after a lot of prints. The
manufacturer's specifications will tell you how many prints can be made with
a certain amount of chemical.
2. You have to use enough chemical to quickly wet the paper. If you use a
very small amount, it will be difficult to get the developer to flow over
the entire surface evenly.
My trays have very tiny ridges on the bottom. I like to have at keast about
1/2" of developer in the tray. (I use developer one-shot and throw it away
after a session). I like to have the stop bath and fixer trays nearly half
full. I re-use those chemicals.

 

Since nobody else here can seem to understand, let alone answer, what's
basically a simple question, might I suggest that you answer it
yourself? Assuming you have the trays you want to use, just fill them
with water to the minimum height you think you'll need, then pour out
the water and measure it. (If you don't actually have those trays, then
you'll have to do a volume calculation, based on the area of the tray
multiplied by the height of the developer solution, which you can again
determine empirically.)

This is what you wanted to know, right?

 

2 liters is easily enough but it depends how many sheets. One liter
should be adequate for about 25 B&W FB based prints in an 11x14 tray.

 

Pre-wetting the paper is another way when using minimal
solution volumes. A minute or two will do. Pour out the water,
pour in the developer. I process using one-shot very dilute,
developer and fix, no stop. My solution volumes are the
surface area of the paper in square inches times four
equals the volume in ml. Likely three times would
still provide easy processing; eg, 8x10, 240ml -
12x16, 576ml

A second tray is used for holding. The processing and
hold trays are used for alternate tray washing. Dan

 

that means you use 50 mm heigth of solution.

 

sorry, typo. i meant to say 5mm.

 

This is a very bad idea, as a general-purpose development technique --
it will dramatically change the characteristic curve of the paper, or,
at least, the papers I was using when I tried it (Kodabromide III,
and the last-generation Oriental-manufactured Seagull the second time I
gave it a shot) exhibited this effect unless given extremely long
development times.

 

I'd suppose the same could be said for pre-wetted film although
I've never heard it mentioned. In both instances one might think of
pre-wetting as water bath development but with one pre-development
bath. Perhaps my use of very dilute one-shot developer and some
what extended development times preclude the effect.
Usually I've enough solution volume so skip pre-wetting. IMO, one
wetting couldn't possibly make any more than an insignificant
difference; taking into account my very watery developer.
I will though look out for pre-wet effects. Dan

 

I still don't see why you can't determine the volume you need by simple
experimentation; you only need enough solution to cover the paper
completely, which should be very easy to determine visually. Forget
"solution height" in mm; just figure out how much liquid it takes to
completely submerge a piece of paper. We're not talking about
high-precision processing here.

 

Some paper has developer in the emulsion coating. Wouldn't it be washed out
with pre-soaking?

 

It would be activated, not washed out. No doubt one of the things that
contributes to the ill effects Thor commented on.

 

Thank you. This makes sense: "Yonly need enough solution to cover
the paper