How to get HDV from the Timeline to the TV Screen?

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Mardon, May 28, 2005.

  1. Mardon

    Mardon Guest

    I hope this is not a trivially easy question. I've done some searching of
    the web and can't find a clear answer, so I'm asking here.
    I recently purchased a new workstation that has the horsepower and storage
    capacity to edit HDV (dual 3.6 GHz Xeon's, 5 GB DDR-2, 1 TB fast storage
    with Premiere Pro v1.5.1.) I don't yet had an HDV camera but I'm thinking
    about creating an HDV video from still images. If I do this, is there any
    prosumer-level hardware available that will allow me to burn an HD disc that
    can be played for display on my 1080i TV? Specifically, I'm wondering if a
    short HD program can be burned to a standard DVD disc and played in a
    set-top DVD player much like a miniDVD can be burned to a CD and played in
    some set top DVD players? If there is not yet an easy way for prosumers to
    get HDV from the editing timeline to a 1080i TV, then why are camera
    manufacture's targeting their new HDV cameras at prosumers? If HD discs are
    not yet available, does anyone know when we can anticipate that a solution
    will be avaiable to home users?
    Mardon, May 28, 2005
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  2. Mardon

    Frank Guest

    As someone trying to provide you with at least a minimally acceptable
    answer, I hope the opposite. :)
    Okay, but there are specific forums (bulletin boards) devoted to
    Sony's 1080i flavor of HDV. Check the Web page in my sig for some
    Sounds like a decent system but don't you mean 4 GB of memory?
    Do you have software which will allow you to do this?

    Sony HDV has some specific requirements such as a 1920 x 1080 frame
    size (squeezed to 1440 x 1080), a field rate of 59.94 fields per
    second (here in the U.S. -- I don't know where you're located, but if
    you were in a PAL country you would want 50 fields per second),
    encoded into an MPEG-2 CBR (Constant Bit Rate) Transport Stream with
    an ITU-R BT.709 color space at a total (audio plus video) data rate of
    about 25 Mbps with MPEG-1 Layer II 16-bit 48 kHz stereo audio at a 384
    kbps data rate.

    And don't forget the long-GOP (Group of Pictures) requirement (15 for
    60i or 12 for 50i).

    If you're just looking for a small file for testing purposes, you
    might do better by simply downloading an appropriate .m2t file off of
    the Net rather than trying to create one yourself.
    Not really, no. DVD-Video is SD (standard definition). The "standard"
    for HD (high definition) optical discs really hasn't been decided upon
    yet, but I'm sure that you know this.

    Some standalone/set top DVD-Video players can handle DivX, so perhaps
    that's a possible route; I've never tried it and therefore don't know.

    Another possibility is to create a Windows Media HD disc, but that
    will likely only playback on your computer, not on your standalone
    DVD-Video player.
    Sony's new model, the yet-to-be-released HDR-HC1, is actually targeted
    at consumers, the assumption being that people will playback tapes in
    the camcorder directly to their Hi-Def television via IEEE 1394
    (FireWire 400 / i.LINK) or analog component connections, whichever
    might happen to be available on their particular television.

    Do remember also that all of Sony's HDV products can do on-the-fly
    downconversion from HD to SD. Many consumers may use this method for
    viewing their material until they acquire an HD television.

    In your case, after you're done editing, you could print the timeline
    to HDV tape via IEEE 1394 and then connect the camcorder to your 1080i
    television for playback.
    Within a year?
    Frank, May 28, 2005
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  3. Mardon

    Mardon Guest

    Thanks for taking the time to provide such a complete answer. I've been
    shooting video with a Sony TRV900 for about 5 years but only since we got a
    Sony KLV-23M1 LCD HDTV have I come to realize how vastly superior the HDTV
    picture is to SD TV. Even the widescreen at SD is a big improvement over
    4:3. Before the new TV, I had rarely used my TRV900 in 16:9 mode but once
    we got the widescreen TV that's now all that I shoot. What I would like to
    do next is create home-made discs that will play with a picture quality
    equal to the quality of broadcast HD programs. If I've understood your
    reply correctly, I think it's too early to be able to do this.

    I've had an initial look at your web site and I'll be going back to read it
    more carefully.
    No. It has 5GB. The system is an HP xw6200 workstation. I live in Canada
    and (much to my frustration) HP does not provide full customization of their
    workstations in the Canadian market. They offer only 'preconfigured' models
    to which things can be added. The preconfigured model of the xw6200 comes
    with 1GB DDR-2 memory as 2-512MB DIMMS in dual channel mode. My choices
    were to add two 1GB DIMMS for 3GB total or add two 2GB for 5GB total or
    throw away the 512MB DIMMS that I had to pay for anyway and install four
    DIMMS for either 4GB or 8GB total. I decided to add two 2GB DIMMS to bring
    the memory to 5GB. If I ever want to go to 8GB, I can discard the 2-512MB
    DIMMS and replace these with 2-2GB DIMMS. BTW, the PC has an NVIDIA Quadro
    FX4400 display card connected to dual monitors.

    Yes. Premiere Pro version 1.5.1 update has 3 presets for HDV: 1080i at
    25fps, 1080i at 29.97fps and 720p at 29.97fps.

    Am I not correct in thinking that Premiere will handle all of these
    technical details automatically as part of the project settings? I've
    created a HDV 1080i, 29.97fps project in Premiere using stills and it all
    seems to work OK on the timeline.
    I want to do the editing myself so that I can get a feel for the 'problems'
    associated with editing and viewing HDV footage before investing in an HDV
    camera. I think that what I'm coming to realize, as confirmed by your
    reply, is that it's still to early to be able to produce HDV videos that can
    be burned to an HD disc for display on an HDTV. I am not interested in
    buying an HDV camera if the only way to view the footage is to connect the
    camera to the TV.
    Thanks. I'll investigate both of these options some more.
    Wow! I wonder about the accuracy of the assumptions in Sony's business
    model. I can not imagine buying a camera if the only method of viewing the
    footage is to play it back through the camera. Neither can I imagine anyone
    spending the money to buy an HDV camcorder but not be willing to cough up
    the money for an HDTV. Those assumptions seem odd to me but Sony's rich and
    I'm not so who am I to question their business model! ;-)
    I realize that this is possible but I'm not interested in buying an HDV
    camera until I can burn the edited program to a disc that I can share with
    others. Until then (about "a year" according to your 'guesstimate') I guess
    I'll continue making DVDs at 16:9, 720x480 NTSC from my TRV900.

    Thanks again, Frank, for your reply!
    Mardon, May 28, 2005
  4. Damn nice webpage Frank.

    [email protected], May 28, 2005
  5. Mardon

    Frank Guest

    You're quite welcome, and I do appreciate your situation. Certainly
    within a year, maybe even before the holiday season this year, the
    Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD camps will have worked out their differences
    and Hi-Def discs will be available to the public, even if it means
    that two different standards co-exist, at least for a while. Of
    course, that also presumes, in your case, that computer-based burners
    (and associated blank media) are available as well, not just
    commercially produced copies of Hollywood movies.

    As to creating a test file, your approach seems sound. Just feed
    Premiere Pro images with the proper dimensions -- or download some
    ..m2t files off of the Net. They're out there.

    As for consumers shooting video and never editing it on a computer or
    elsewhere, I personally have known of many, many people who have done
    and continue to do exactly this -- and in all of the usual consumer
    formats, VHS, VHS-C, 8, Hi-8, etc. Most of them wouldn't even think of
    editing the material, as that was never their intention; they simply
    wanted to capture an event such as a child's sporting event, a
    birthday party, whatever, so connecting the camcorder's outputs
    directly to their television for playback seems quite natural to them.

    In fact, I suspect that if they were asked, they would say "Well, what
    else is the television for except watching television?", although
    playing console games is a major pastime in many households these days
    as well, obviously.

    One reason why some folks are shooting HD now (whether HDV or another
    HD format) is to future-proof their material, especially content which
    they will not be able to go back and re-shoot five years from now.

    And I'm sorry to hear about the way HP treats Canadians. Really.
    Frank, May 28, 2005
  6. Mardon

    Frank Guest

    Thank you! I try. For the last week for so, about 20 percent of the
    visitors have been looking for information about the new Sony HVR-A1
    and HDR-HC1 camcorders. In fact, many of those visitors have been
    looking for either sample clips from these new camcorders or product
    reviews of these new camcorders -- even though they haven't been
    released yet!
    Frank, May 28, 2005
  7. Mardon

    Gary Bettan Guest

    Excellent job! I've bookmarked it and I will be using it as an entry
    in teh Videoguys Blog !!

    The Electronic Mailbox
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    Gary Bettan, Jun 1, 2005
  8. Mardon

    Frank Guest

    How to get HDV from the Timeline to the TV Screen?>,
    Thank you, sir! (And a great blog you have there, too!)
    Frank, Jun 1, 2005
  9. Mardon

    Smarty Guest

    Although my comment is not entirely on topic, I wanted to add that I have
    been playing with a Sony FX1 doing HDV editing, and am astonished (truly
    astonished) that a Mac Mini with its' iMovieHD and IDVD software makes
    perfectly beautiful DVDs from easily edited HDV video. Given that the
    computer costs $499 including all the software, I would have to call this
    the video editing bargain of the century.

    Since I have been using exclusively PC hardware for the last 5 years to edit
    video and make DVDs, and had abandoned the Mac years ago when Adobe Premiere
    was full of bugs and ran poorly, I was truly impressed with how much could
    be done with such a small little system and was especially impressed that 9
    hours of playing around with HDV editing, photo slideshows. DVD burning with
    3 complex applications NEVER had a single bug or crash evident.

    To bring the rendering speed up to reasonable rates, I did eventually (last
    week) buy a dual G5 Mac and am now seeing better rendering times, but the
    performance of the Mini for HDV editing was remarkably fast. They use an
    "intermediate" proxy format for editing (as does Vegas 6 and others on the
    PC) to speed up the editing process.

    Moreover, I have been mixing HDV video and photos into the timeline and also
    putting slideshows of stills (from an 8 MP Nikon Coolpix) into the same DVDs
    as the HDV video. The results look gorgeous. The PC software to do editing
    of HDV is still comparatively pricey.

    Smarty, Jun 1, 2005
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