How to use color profile from photolab??

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Pablo 3style, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. Pablo 3style

    Pablo 3style Guest

    hi
    this are my first photos which i send to photolab to print it. and
    after recived i am supriced becouse color are difrent. My monitor is
    allrigth after calibraiting. I have setup with Adobe RGB profile in my
    camera 10D and in photoshop.

    should i use color profil from photolab or some other??
    what are you thinking about this photos:

    http://www.photo.3style.tv/test/

    should i made some more editing in photoshop? how make the best results
    for photolab printing??

    many thanks

    Pablo
     
    Pablo 3style, Feb 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. Pablo 3style

    bmoag Guest

    Unless you work closely with a third party printer all your calibration is,
    sadly, for naught.
    The best a distant and reliable third party printer can do is arbitrarily
    find a neutral gray in the image (or some analagous landmark) as a reference
    point for their own color managed printing system.
    If your printing service does not even bother to do that you need a new
    printing service.
    Better: learn to print your own using color management.
     
    bmoag, Feb 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. Pablo 3style

    Paul Furman Guest

    You will have to ask the lab. It's likely that they can't handle Adobe
    RGB and/or they are allowing further automatic adjustments.
     
    Paul Furman, Feb 4, 2006
    #3
  4. Pablo 3style

    C J Southern Guest

    Pablo,

    Adobe RGB and sRGB (the "Default") are what are termed "device dependant"
    profiles - the results you get depend on the device that generate them (as
    opposed to CIE LAB which is device independant). Perhaps a good analogy
    would be with map directions that say "take 20 paces to the north, then 45
    paces east - then start digging" - where you end up depends totally on how
    long your paces are. Same with RGB - it defines how much R G and B to
    use, but doesn't define just what shade the Reds, Greens, and Blues are.
    Correct colour management attaches profiles to your RGB data that
    effectively says "when the map maker took a pace it was 3 feet long - so if
    your pace is longer then it knows to tell you to take less paces".

    In your case it's most likely that you're feeding the lab Adobe RGB, but
    they're treating it as sRGB - which means that everything will look a LOT
    darker. If that's not the case, then we've definately got a more serious
    colour management issue. Try sending them a small sample in sRGB - also
    check with them as to what colourspaces they can handle. See also if they
    can hadle a file that's in LAB colour - if they can, and it's still wrong
    then you've most likely still got a monitor calibration issue.

    You said that your monitor has been calibrated - was this with a
    Colorimeter, or just using AdobeGamma?

    Cheers,

    Colin

    PS: If you're keen, pick up a copy of "Real World Color Management" 2nd
    Edition - it's the current definitive text on the subject.
     
    C J Southern, Feb 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Pablo 3style

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    It depends on the lab. Many don't handle color profiles at all, so you
    must convert to sRGB to send the pictures to them. You need to find out
    how the particular lab works.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Feb 4, 2006
    #5
  6. Pablo 3style

    Pablo 3style Guest

    hi all
    thanks for all answers - they help me !!
    after calls to lab and asking - they told me that i should use kolor
    profile for Kodak endura paper.
    I've got this profile from internet and i try to use it with next
    photos.

    i was reading a lot about color profile and i think i know a liitle
    more ;))

    many thanks !!!

    and mayby - what are you thinking about my photos? are they technical
    corect???

    thanks

    Pablo
     
    Pablo 3style, Feb 5, 2006
    #6
  7. Pablo 3style

    Stacey Guest

    The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
    photoshop. My guess about the problem is they are expecting the file in
    sRGB and their software doesn't do a conversion from aRGB to sRGB if you
    send them aRGB files.

    DON'T convert the file to their printer profile before you send it to them!
    That isn't what the profile is for. 99% of their customers don't know what
    a profile is, don't own photoshop and use an sRGB P&S that doesn't tag the
    files, that's what they expect. You threw them a curve ball with the aRGB
    files. You can use their profile to soft proof and mainly to look for out
    of gamut colors in your files and correct them before you send the sRGB
    file.


    Cool shots.
     
    Stacey, Feb 5, 2006
    #7
  8. Pablo 3style

    C J Southern Guest

    Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
     
    C J Southern, Feb 5, 2006
    #8
  9. Pablo 3style

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    No... that's not how that works. An output profile would be used for
    soft-proofing, where you can preview on your screen what the printed
    output will look like. You don't convert to the output profile. The
    thing you need to know is how they handle color profiles in files you
    send them; my bet is that they assume sRGB and don't handle other
    profiles at all, because if they answered your question by pointing
    you to the paper output profile, it doesn't sound like they have much
    knowledge of a color-managed workflow.

    So you should probably convert your files to sRGB before sending them.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Feb 5, 2006
    #9
  10. Pablo 3style

    Pablo 3style Guest

    The color profile they send you is for -soft proofing- the image in
    thanks
    thise profile which i found on lab web site is profile for kodak endura
    papar
    know i understand that is only for preview.

    but if i using AdobeRGB profil on my 10D - can i send him in aRGB? or
    always i should convert to sRGB??
     
    Pablo 3style, Feb 5, 2006
    #10
  11. Yes. Unless reading info on their website indicates otherwise, which I
    doubt. What's the name of the lab?
     
    John McWilliams, Feb 5, 2006
    #11
  12. Pablo 3style

    Pablo 3style Guest

    Pablo 3style, Feb 5, 2006
    #12
  13. Hmmm. Went there, d/loaded the Acrobat file, skimmed it, and found it
    not helpful. The site isn't clear enough about color space, so until you
    learn differently, stick with sRGB.
     
    John McWilliams, Feb 5, 2006
    #13
  14. Pablo 3style

    Stacey Guest


    Find out what they expect the file to be. Many want sRGB so you should
    convert your files to sRGB before you send them. You'll want to check for
    out of gamut colors both in sRGB and their profile (see photoshop help file
    on how to do this) and decide how best to bring these out of gamut colors
    within the other color space without ruining the look of the image.

    Also you should ALWAYS convert to sRGB before posting images to a web site.

    All that said, you might want to shoot/develop the RAW files to sRGB to
    avoid all these problems.
     
    Stacey, Feb 6, 2006
    #14
  15. Pablo 3style

    C J Southern Guest

    Or find a "lab" that can handle aRGB.
     
    C J Southern, Feb 6, 2006
    #15
  16. Pablo 3style

    zeitgeist Guest

    what are you doing now to fix your images?

    are you setting levels your self or using auto levels? you can learn to set
    your own white and black points.

    you can burn and dodge your images, you can render one for the highlights, a
    second for the shadow areas, layer them and erase or mask this area and that
    for the best of both sides.

    but if you are having problems with a local printer, tell them to turn off
    any auto exposure or color and contrast adjustments they may do to 'help'
    you. the average consumer just takes the chip out of the camera and puts
    into the minilab's terminal. Have you ever seen their histograms? a hump
    in the middle with nothing at either end, no wonder the amatuer labs
    automatically add contrast. If I forget to tell the clerk at the lab to
    turn it off I get something back that looks fried, if they turn it off I get
    just what I want.
     
    zeitgeist, Feb 10, 2006
    #16
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