HTML Text and Photoshop Text

Discussion in 'Photoshop Tutorials' started by Raoul, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. Raoul

    Raoul Guest

    Hey Folks:

    I thought it best to do title text in photoshop and bring into my
    webpage for a better quality look. But, using Composer, the HTML looks
    pretty darn OK.

    Thoughts?
     
    Raoul, Nov 22, 2005
    #1
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  2. Raoul

    kitakits.com Guest

    Composer? what is that..

    I would much prefer using Adobe Photoshp for text titles. Their
    effects are nice & customizable & with CS2, you can do more with that.
     
    kitakits.com, Nov 22, 2005
    #2
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  3. Raoul

    Flo Nelson Guest


    Html text (using header tags like h1, h2, etc.) is much better for the
    search engines, plus it's resizable and therefore more accessible. Not to
    mention more easily updateable.

    Flo
     
    Flo Nelson, Nov 22, 2005
    #3
  4. Raoul

    kitakits.com Guest

    Especially when it comes to search engines they rely on the meta tags
    if not the actual text words to properly rank them into their engines.
    Making the words into pictures won't help the search engine at all when
    it comes crawling into your website nor that it will help you when it
    comes to page ranking.
     
    kitakits.com, Nov 22, 2005
    #4
  5. Raoul

    iehsmith Guest

    I understand that fewer engines are using meta tags and comments, but what
    of image attributes like alt, title, longdesc (not applicable in this case)?

    Also, while I understand that repetitive words/phrases help in rankings, you
    may choose to balance that with design; this depends on the site, its
    purpose and so on.

    Still, if he's just after a plain text title with no special effects or
    illustrative aspects, there's no reason at all to make the text an image.
    Just name a cross-platform selection of common fonts in your styles.


    inez
     
    iehsmith, Nov 22, 2005
    #5
  6. Raoul

    tacit Guest

    That was true once. It is not true any more.

    Right now, not one of the major search engines even looks at meta tags;
    the meta tags are completely ignored.

    Meta tags were a great idea, but they are no longer useful thanks to the
    flagrant abuse of unethical Webmasters. Many Webmasters began taking
    lists of the most popular search terms, like "britney spears" and
    "recipie" and "Coca-Cola," and putting them into their Meta tags even
    when the sites had nothing to do with any of those things in order to
    boost search engine results. The practice became so common that meta
    tags became worthless.

    Google and Yahoo stopped looking at meta tags years ago. The other major
    search engines all followed suit very quickly thereafter. As of 2002,
    only Inktomi still looked at meta tags; now, nobody does any more.
    Today, meta tags bloat the size of your HTML files but add nothing.
     
    tacit, Nov 22, 2005
    #6
  7. Raoul

    kitakits.com Guest

    "I did mention Meta Tags and if NOT the actual words..." I find google
    actually crawls all over the pages of your website and keeps copies of
    it on their server making searching much faster. Also that when you do
    attach an image onto a website via HTML the ALT is still in words
    discription.. making it searchable to the current search engines we
    have today.

    I even noticed that some website cheat by placing keywords on the
    bottom of their page... "example:keyword keyword keyword keyword
    keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword keyword"

    Search engines I heard also programmed in such a way to minus the rank
    of a cheating website based on what ever contents they have.. giving
    its user relavent websites based on their search...
     
    kitakits.com, Nov 22, 2005
    #7
  8. Raoul

    photosonly Guest

    If search engines no longer rely on meta tags, what do they look at?

    For a photography site dominated by galleries of images but with very
    little text, how can the search engines be steered to (but not cheated
    into) the site and images? Will adding titles and captions to the images
    help?
     
    photosonly, Nov 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Raoul

    tacit Guest

    They look at the words actually contained in the (visible) body of the
    HTML.

    Google relies heavily on "page rank" to determine search engine results.
    Page rank is a measure of how many people link to you. The idea is that
    the more people who have Web sites that link to you, the more valuable
    and pertinent people find your Web page, so the higher it appears in a
    Google search. The best way to have a very high search engine result is
    to have a large number of Web sites that link to you.
     
    tacit, Nov 23, 2005
    #9
  10. Raoul

    Flo Nelson Guest


    Search engine ranking is actually based on complex algorithms that take a
    lot of different factors into account - metatags, page titles, headings,
    the text of the page, alt tags for images, number of hits you get, how many
    sites are linked to you (and what their rankings are). There are also checks
    for methods that try to spam the search engines - and the penalties are
    large for doing so.

    For a photography site, I'd suggest a good description of the site and what
    is available on the home page -- and titles/captions certainly wouldn't
    hurt.

    Flo
     
    Flo Nelson, Nov 23, 2005
    #10
  11. Raoul

    iehsmith Guest

    Categorizing your galleries with a descriptive page for each category may
    help too.

    (how to ask this question) Do the search engines pay attention to their
    image search results?

    inez
     
    iehsmith, Nov 23, 2005
    #11
  12. Raoul

    Flo Nelson Guest


    If they can return results for something, then they've indexed it - I know
    alt text counts, not sure about image names. How things are weighted changes
    a lot and they keep it a secret.

    Flo
     
    Flo Nelson, Nov 24, 2005
    #12
  13. Raoul

    photosonly Guest

    Good suggestions and I understand most of the terms. But what are "alt
    tags for images" and "alt text" (from your other post)? You can tell
    that I'm a web design newbie.

    It seems like that the search engines' algorithms are text based. That's
    why I find Google's Image search very crude. One day, someone will make
    searching for images work better.
     
    photosonly, Nov 24, 2005
    #13
  14. Raoul

    tacit Guest

    That is true of everything except metatags. Major search engines do not
    consider metatags *at all*. They are not examined by the search engine
    and are not a factor in the result.

    For Google, page rank (which is more than just a number of pages linking
    to a site; it's a weighted score, which takes into account the page rank
    of the pages linking to a site as well) appears to be the single most
    important factor to where a page is returned in the list of hits. Other
    factors include the title tag (a keyword appearing in a page's title has
    more weight than the same keyword appearing in the page's body, all
    other things being equal), and many other factors, including image ALT
    text and so on.

    Still, there's no getting around the fact that the single best way to
    have a page returned very high in search results is to have a large
    number of pages linking to it. My own Web site, for example, has quite a
    high PageRank (and correspondingly high appearance in relevant Google
    searches), in part because a very large number of people link to it.
     
    tacit, Nov 24, 2005
    #14
  15. Raoul

    tacit Guest

    An "alt tag" is a name you give an image. It appears on the Web page
    while the image is loading, and in some browsers it appears as a little
    yellow popup when the user puts his mouse pointer over the image.

    It looks like this (note: I am using "[" instead of "<" to avoid
    confusing any newsreaders that might try to interpret HTML):

    [img src="http://www.someservername/someimage.jpg" alt="Gramma at the
    Beach"]

    In this example, the browser will display the words "Gramma at the
    Beach" in the placeholder while the image loads; "Gramma at the Beach"
    is the alt tag for the image.
     
    tacit, Nov 24, 2005
    #15
  16. Raoul

    iehsmith Guest

    I had misspoke (not uncommon). It's not actually a tag, but an attribute of
    the IMG tag.

    The ALT attribute is meant to be a replacement for an image if the image
    doesn't load in the browser. Example: alt="a dulling leaf that is yellowing
    and curling at the edges." (It's best when you can think of the alt text as
    inline text so that it sort of flows with the rest of the text content
    instead of interfere with it or make for confusion.)

    The TITLE attribute is just that, a descriptive title of what occupies that
    area: title="Photo that illustrates an unhealthy leaf"

    Note: ALT text doesn't "pop up" in amny newer browsers, but TITLE text
    will.

    The LONGDESC attribute would contain an URL to a text page that contains a
    detailed, long description of the photo like: longdesc="sickleaf_desc.html"
    (or sickleaf_disc.txt). That page might read like:
    -------
    Photo that illustrates an unhealthy leaf

    This is a photo of a Philodendron leaf that illustrates the dulling of its
    color and gloss and the yellowing and curling at the edges of the leaf that
    are the first indicators of a lack of essential nutrients and moisture in
    the soil.
    -------

    The IMG TAG would look like this:
    <img src="sickphilleaf.jpg" alt="a dulling leaf that is yellowing and
    curling at the edges" title="Photo that illustrates an unhealthy leaf"
    longdesc="sickleaf_desc.html" width="120" height="144"

    I really need to sort through my bookmarks. The above is as I remember it
    for somewhere, sometime ago. I'm sure someone will speak up if it's outdatd
    info. You don't do the above with spacer images, an empty alt attribute is
    sufficient. If I can find my old resource I'll post it to this thread.

    inez
     
    iehsmith, Nov 25, 2005
    #16
  17. Raoul

    photosonly Guest

    Thank you (and Tacit) for the explanation. I now understand what is
    img's alt attribute.

    When an image is displayed with a caption (outside the image), is the
    caption created by the Title attribute?
     
    photosonly, Nov 26, 2005
    #17
  18. Raoul

    tacit Guest

    No. It's created when the Webmaster just types the text of the caption.
     
    tacit, Nov 28, 2005
    #18
  19. Raoul

    iehsmith Guest


    The only caption tag I know of was used in tables, though I could easily be
    wrong.

    The title attribute in the img tag will popup when you mouse over the image.

    inez
     
    iehsmith, Nov 28, 2005
    #19
  20. Raoul

    photosonly Guest

    Thanks all, I think we have beaten this one to death.
     
    photosonly, Nov 29, 2005
    #20
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